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Ken Fenner
04-10-2009, 08:58 PM
Very strange evening.. I had three bids that ended up in an area I don't usually service but they were grouped and nice projects.

First was a house wash. 3000 s/f vinyl colonial. With gutter scrubbing and wax polymer, $675. Front facing roofs (one over second story, one over garage, maybe 1000 s.f)) add on $350. Guy tells me I am half of what the last guy bid. Alright!

Next bid.. two neighbors, side by side. Small decks, about 250 s/f. Bid those $895 each and one lady exclaims.. "I like that price! I've gotten other bids and yours is the best". Hearing that of course made the other lady sign as well.

At this point I was listening for the voice of Rod Serling (You old timers know who I am talking about)

Third and final bid was an ipe deck. 1100 s.f. Painers bid $3600. I bid $2200. Homeowner called the painters "crooks".



My apologies to the contractors in West Chester who bid these projects. I thought the rates in my area were the highest. I will not make that mistake again. For the time being I wear the tag shamefully... :redface:

Lowballer.

David Vicars
04-10-2009, 10:35 PM
Someone once told me, if your closing ratio is 100% you need to raise your prices.:Smiley-2101:

:offtopic:I just signed a client who is from West Chester. This is their 2nd home here in MB. I'll pass your info to them if you want.

Carlos Gonzales
04-10-2009, 10:41 PM
Someone once told me, if your closing ratio is 100% you need to raise your prices.:Smiley-2101:

:offtopic:I just signed a client who is from West Chester. This is their 2nd home here in MB. I'll pass your info to them if you want.

LOL...Yea Ken..whats up with that?

I closed a contract on Monday ~ thats next Monday ~ for 25K. Why? Cause the client already told me that I got it!!! BooYaaa. I do need to go out and look it..:biggrin:

Seriously ...cograts dude. Were these the ones that you went out on this afternoon after we spoke?

Ken Fenner
04-10-2009, 10:45 PM
Someone once told me, if your closing ratio is 100% you need to raise your prices.:Smiley-2101:

:offtopic:I just signed a client who is from West Chester. This is their 2nd home here in MB. I'll pass your info to them if you want.

You know how it goes, David. You win six in a row and then you don't close the next ten. In the end, it always averages out the same.

David Vicars
04-10-2009, 10:48 PM
No doubt Ken. I couldn't resist. LOL

Scott Davis
04-11-2009, 12:16 AM
Hahaha

Sounds like a roof cleaning we did about 7 months ago. We went out to do the estimate and the roof looked really easy. It wasnt that steep, didnt have any gables, and it was low barrel tile. Easy. We charged our normal amount, which came out to $800, and I was nervous to give him the bid thinking it was too high, but didnt want to discount it at the same time. When I presented him the bid, he took the paper signed it and asked when we could do the job. I was like WOW!! He then proceeded to tell me that he had gotten another bid from a guy who showed up in a beater truck w/ a pressure washer in the back, and quoted him $1,500!!!

My jaw hit the floor!

Damaris Sutton
04-11-2009, 01:09 AM
Very strange evening.. I had three bids that ended up in an area I don't usually service but they were grouped and nice projects.

First was a house wash. 3000 s/f vinyl colonial. With gutter scrubbing and wax polymer, $675. Front facing roofs (one over second story, one over garage, maybe 1000 s.f)) add on $350. Guy tells me I am half of what the last guy bid. Alright!

Next bid.. two neighbors, side by side. Small decks, about 250 s/f. Bid those $895 each and one lady exclaims.. "I like that price! I've gotten other bids and yours is the best". Hearing that of course made the other lady sign as well.

At this point I was listening for the voice of Rod Serling (You old timers know who I am talking about)

Third and final bid was an ipe deck. 1100 s.f. Painers bid $3600. I bid $2200. Homeowner called the painters "crooks".



My apologies to the contractors in West Chester who bid these projects. I thought the rates in my area were the highest. I will not make that mistake again. For the time being I wear the tag shamefully... :redface:

Lowballer.

::Grabs Ken by Neck:: I was the painter.... :headshakesmile-fast

Doug Dahlke
04-11-2009, 07:47 AM
Imagine this. You are bidding work for your power washing business. Your price structure has been lowered in an attempt to keep your head above water in a less than desirable economy. You hand the potential customer your bid confident that business will be coming your way only to find out that you have been low balled by Ken Fenner and Pressure Pros. Fasten your seat belts. You're about to enter the Twighlight Zone.

Terry Miller
04-11-2009, 08:04 AM
I believe no matter what I Bid, someone is always higher and someone lower. I don't even think about anyone elses Bid anymore. Mine is the only one that counts! Based on our financial plan, we said it and we use it. It is good to know where we actually stand!

Jim Chesmore
04-11-2009, 08:41 AM
Very strange evening.. I had three bids that ended up in an area I don't usually service but they were grouped and nice projects.

First was a house wash. 3000 s/f vinyl colonial. With gutter scrubbing and wax polymer, $675. Front facing roofs (one over second story, one over garage, maybe 1000 s.f)) add on $350. Guy tells me I am half of what the last guy bid. Alright!

Next bid.. two neighbors, side by side. Small decks, about 250 s/f. Bid those $895 each and one lady exclaims.. "I like that price! I've gotten other bids and yours is the best". Hearing that of course made the other lady sign as well.

At this point I was listening for the voice of Rod Serling (You old timers know who I am talking about)

Third and final bid was an ipe deck. 1100 s.f. Painers bid $3600. I bid $2200. Homeowner called the painters "crooks".



My apologies to the contractors in West Chester who bid these projects. I thought the rates in my area were the highest. I will not make that mistake again. For the time being I wear the tag shamefully... :redface:

Lowballer.

I'm soooo confused :Smiley-2041::toetap05:

when they said you are half the price of the other guys I would have expected you to look at your contract and say "whoops, I must have hit the wrong keys on the calculator, here is the correct price (25% more then the comp.)" AND STILL make the sale :biggrin:

Ken Fenner
04-11-2009, 08:43 AM
Imagine this. You are bidding work for your power washing business. Your price structure has been lowered in an attempt to keep your head above water in a less than desirable economy. You hand the potential customer your bid confident that business will be coming your way only to find out that you have been low balled by Ken Fenner and Pressure Pros. Fasten your seat belts. You're about to enter the Twighlight Zone.

Pretty scary huh? There is a first time for everything.

Scott Davis
04-11-2009, 08:46 AM
Look at it this way Ken, You still made over $5000!!! hahahaha

Ken Fenner
04-11-2009, 08:53 AM
Scott, true that! I don't about the rest of the country but I am not off one bit. Calls are coming in and people are signing. The housing market is making a slight rebound (as per a friend in that business). Even the mall parking lots seem to be much more full.

Its all because of your hero, BHO, Scott. :clap:

Jeff Wible
04-11-2009, 09:01 AM
Lowballing is an interesting subject. What may be lowballing to some, is survival to another. Ever see those stores that will beat any competitors advertised price,...I believe that is lowballing at it's finest,...BUT,...they got the customer and possibly more sales to the customer because they got them to their store to redeem the best price award.

Now along with the house wash,... you sell the roof and the deck.

Lowballing is more along the lines of serious competition, it's not a personal thing,...(at least in most cases).
Usually comes down to someone being mad because the guy charging less got the job. So they are labeled LOWBALLING SCUM OF THE EARTH
Giving a better price doesn't make someone a hack,...usually keeps their phone ringing.

Jeff

Jim Chesmore
04-11-2009, 09:07 AM
Scott, true that! I don't about the rest of the country but I am not off one bit. Calls are coming in and people are signing. The housing market is making a slight rebound (as per a friend in that business). Even the mall parking lots seem to be much more full.

Its all because of your hero, BHO, Scott. :clap:

now I know this is the Twilight Zone, wheres my coffee?:saai:

makdeco
04-11-2009, 09:25 AM
Yeah Ken, you know us painters were all crooks...

I would have to say that most painters including my self at one time had are over priced on decks. Mostly because of being uneducated about the proper methods, chemicals, and top coats that are out there.

Most painters are running up to the big box and buying Behr, washing the deck and slapping on another coat... and usually get good money to do it. Then when it needs to be totally stripped the clients wonders why the price is high for another painter to strip it.

When you know what your doing you should be able to make money at it even if your the lower in price.

Scott Davis
04-11-2009, 09:45 AM
Lowballing is an interesting subject. What may be lowballing to some, is survival to another. Ever see those stores that will beat any competitors advertised price,...I believe that is lowballing at it's finest,...BUT,...they got the customer and possibly more sales to the customer because they got them to their store to redeem the best price award.

Now along with the house wash,... you sell the roof and the deck.

Lowballing is more along the lines of serious competition, it's not a personal thing,...(at least in most cases).
Usually comes down to someone being mad because the guy charging less got the job. So they are labeled LOWBALLING SCUM OF THE EARTH
Giving a better price doesn't make someone a hack,...usually keeps their phone ringing.

Jeff

I think you are right in a way. Where the problem comes in is where I charge $800 and another guy charges $250, takes 2 days and does a lackluster job. It makes roof cleaners look bad, and takes money out of my pocket. Now its easy to say "well, let him only charge that much and he'll go out of business." And thats all fine and good, except in the mean time, he is taking $800 out of my pocket while not furthering his life AT ALL.

Just charging less than someone is fine, but there is a difference in being competively priced, and LOWBALLING.

Scott Davis
04-11-2009, 09:47 AM
Scott, true that! I don't about the rest of the country but I am not off one bit. Calls are coming in and people are signing. The housing market is making a slight rebound (as per a friend in that business). Even the mall parking lots seem to be much more full.

Its all because of your hero, BHO, Scott. :clap:

We are not off either!! Phone has been ringing, websites been popping and people have been signing the dotted line. For some reason, we dhave seen a slight slowdown in the past week but its still rolling in. :yes:

BHO my a$$. :pukey: If they keep spending like this we'll be in a depression before you know it. :yes::offtopic:

deach
04-11-2009, 09:49 AM
Any more when I bid I can almost tell exactly who I'm bidding against if the customer tells me "you're double the price" or something to that affect. I think my April is actually up from last year too. People wanting to get decks done that have sat for a while and houses washed. (For the record the painting end is up too). So I'm not sure if the economy is "bad" or "good" right now. (mines ok).

Gonna have my coffee and go to the twilight zone now:biggrin: Enjoyed your post Ken

Jeff Wible
04-11-2009, 09:55 AM
I agree 100% Scott,....but the term lowballer always seems to be associated with cost. This very thread was started with a comical "lowballed" comment. Which is fine, and Ken was just joking around,..but the mere fact is he was using the term "lowballer" on cost alone,... and no mention of workmanship . Although this whole thread is in jest,...it makes the point of what people "consider" lowballing.

Ken, I know this thread is in jest, but it brings to light the way people actually perceive the term lowballer.

Jeff

Scott Davis
04-11-2009, 10:09 AM
The term Lowballer specifically describes someone who "lowballs" the price. I think the term "Hack" thrown around more incorrectly when discussing price. Just because someone is lower priced doesnt make them a hack. Look at Ron. If someone is low priced and does a terrible job, that makes them a hack.

One thing Ive never seen is someone who charges alot, but still does a terrible job....Would they be a hack?

Jeff Wible
04-11-2009, 10:13 AM
Yes, the person doing terrible work consistently is a hack. Quality will always be the determining factor as to who's a hack.

Jeff

Jeff Wible
04-11-2009, 10:16 AM
The term Lowballer specifically describes someone who "lowballs" the price.


Yes, but it gets lumped in with the scumbag category all to often. Just sounds like a bad thing to be labeled.

Jeff

Ken Fenner
04-11-2009, 10:17 AM
You bring up a good point, Jeff. My definition of a lowballer is a company that sells on price alone and is way out of line with regional pricing. An example would be I bid $575, a painter bids $495, a new guy bids $400 and the proverbial lowballer, comes in at $150. This guy can be an uninsured weekender, a hack that cuts corners or he can also be a larger company that does good work.

The last one is the dangerous one. He is afraid of, or is just plain uninterested in trying to sell work at a higher rate more in line with everyone else. Their price is what sells. He/She drives down the overall market. These are the companies that do well at first. They give decent quality work at a "fair" price.

Well, I am not gonna go out of business so I increase efficiency, lower my wages, sacrifice a bit of work quality and match or undercut him. He does the same. Joe Pro down the block and another big company across town read the writing on the wall and they start charging lower. Three bigger companies in a market advertising and selling jobs at low prices..Now the entire market begins to realize that $135 house washes are the norm. Now the guy that bragged about doing massiive amounts of work finds that his prices aren't so competetive anymore, so what's he do? Its a vicious cycle. Lowballers are a scourge to any industry.

Note: Not everyone that charges the lowest rate is a lowballer. Somebody has to be lowest. Its when they are WAY out of line that they become a lowballer in my eyes.

Jeff Wible
04-11-2009, 10:22 AM
I see your perspective Ken. The term "fits" sometimes for sure. But I've just seen it used to describe seemingly anyone charging less money. But, yea, it does have a group that it applies to.

Jeff

Scott Davis
04-11-2009, 10:25 AM
Note: Not everyone that charges the lowest rate is a lowballer. Somebody has to be lowest. Its when they are WAY out of line that they become a lowballer in my eyes.

This was the point of my original post.

Scott Davis
04-11-2009, 10:27 AM
I see your perspective Ken. The term "fits" sometimes for sure. But I've just seen it used to describe seemingly anyone charging less money. But, yea, it does have a group that it applies to.

Jeff

To use a Fenner term, I think we are in Violent agreement Jeff.

If it is used to describe someone who just charges less money, then the person doing the name calling is ignorant, and just angry that they lost the job.

Greg Nash
04-11-2009, 11:42 AM
I think alot of contractors call anyone who beats their price a lowball hack. that is not always the case, in my area I have a guy who advertises 45 dollar house washs. I know for a fact he is not a hack just a lowballer. at that price he has clientle that i wont even return calls to. there is a market for cheap jobs and high end jobs what you have to look out for is the guy who does both and charges on the low end of the scale. If I was to move north I would probably called a low baller for awhile until I learned my market and adjusted.

DJ Carroll
04-11-2009, 12:39 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why it matters what the classification of a lowballer is? As long as it isn't me i don't care lol

Jim Chesmore
04-11-2009, 01:40 PM
DJ, FWIW, I googled "lowballer" and it showed a picture of Ken Fenner :Smiley-2020:

Tom DeFrancesco
04-12-2009, 10:37 AM
I must say I have also adjusted my prices and have dropped them a bit due to the economy. I have gotten quite a few calls on doing decks and a couple of wood retaining walls. Out of the 5 estimates I went out on I closed all 5. I ceratinly am not a low baller. Ask Bruno (LOL). What I did do to 4 out of 5 is up sell a house wash. I dropped my house wash a $100 from my 2008 prices but raised my wood restoration by $75 compared to last year. Meaning I up sold the house wash because I tell them we normally charge XYZ but if you hire us for the wood restoration we will only charge ABC for the house wash. It basically is a shell game and it works.
Me and Bruno already have a bonifide "low baller" who will remain nameless in our area. Low baller is putting it nicely.
Just because someone is able to give a lower price does not necessarily mean they actually did.

DJ Carroll
04-12-2009, 01:39 PM
I must say I have also adjusted my prices and have dropped them a bit due to the economy. I have gotten quite a few calls on doing decks and a couple of wood retaining walls. Out of the 5 estimates I went out on I closed all 5. I ceratinly am not a low baller. Ask Bruno (LOL). What I did do to 4 out of 5 is up sell a house wash. I dropped my house wash a $100 from my 2008 prices but raised my wood restoration by $75 compared to last year. Meaning I up sold the house wash because I tell them we normally charge XYZ but if you hire us for the wood restoration we will only charge ABC for the house wash. It basically is a shell game and it works.
Me and Bruno already have a bonifide "low baller" who will remain nameless in our area. Low baller is putting it nicely.
Just because someone is able to give a lower price does not necessarily mean they actually did.


I just don't see this happening in my area . . . This is an e mail from a customer this morning . . .

"We have decided to have the works. We would like the roof cleaning, gold package vinyl siding cleaning, and the drive and front sidewalks. We will not need the garage door cleaned, it has recently been painted.
If all possible could you please do this the first or second week in May, we are having our concrete around the pool resurfaced in May and would like this done first. Please let us know. When you come out we will show you where the downspouts come out."

They called for a roof cleaning. I priced the roof, along with the house and told them the drive would only be $99 if they wished to go with the total package. . . it is a 2200 sq ft. house

Prices:
HW - Gold Package = $367
Roof - $513
Drive - $99
Total = $979

Recession ??? I guess I am thankful for my selling ability and being in an area not hit nearly as bad as others. :clap:

Jeff Wible
04-12-2009, 03:55 PM
No recession effect here,... 27 jobs and counting and getting frustrated with the weather!!

Jeff

Michael Kreisle
04-12-2009, 06:17 PM
No recession effect here,... 27 jobs and counting and getting frustrated with the weather!!

Jeff

Weather is killing me. It can't make up it's mind!

Tom DeFrancesco
04-13-2009, 03:41 PM
My outlook is people seem to be more than willing to pay what they have to to clean or restore what they have rather than buying or building new. I have a lot of friends that are GC'S and their phones have not been ringing for the last 4 months.

DJ Carroll
04-13-2009, 05:17 PM
Weather is killing me. It can't make up it's mind!


OMG you're telling me. . . It has rained all day today on and off and we have had to work around it . . .i'm over this rain

Ken Fenner
04-13-2009, 08:29 PM
OMG you're telling me. . . It has rained all day today on and off and we have had to work around it . . .i'm over this rain

If you got it today, I guess it will be in my backyard tommorow.

Damaris Sutton
04-13-2009, 08:40 PM
If you got it today, I guess it will be in my backyard tommorow.


I booked another job and have a couple irons in the fire, so very soon I can hurry up and...have a cold ice tea and some BBQ ribs? I like me some BBQ, but I need to work.

Ken Fenner
04-13-2009, 08:55 PM
I booked another job and have a couple irons in the fire, so very soon I can hurry up and...have a cold ice tea and some BBQ ribs? I like me some BBQ, but I need to work.

You can sub for me every dry day for the next couple of weeks if you want. I am having an interesting year with employees. I'll call you in the morning.