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John Tornabene
08-25-2010, 02:32 AM
This is where Rob Huffman the Convention Chair and his crew of Jeff L. Myself, Don Phelps and Carlos hit the homerun for this org... The rest is history but the finger pointing days are long over. Its a shame us guys and the BOD could not remedy the up coming situation at hand. This to me was the turning point of this org. and its also where I wished I never let my fellow members down by quitting.
Anyway Enjoy the pictures and maybe just maybe we can do this again as the UAMCC org.

John Tornabene
08-25-2010, 02:34 AM
Not trying to rankle any feathers but I've been to a few Conventions and this one ranked right near the top. Persnally if I never thanked the guys then for pulling this off well my bad because you all did a GREAT job.

Jeff LeCours
08-25-2010, 08:43 AM
I had a blast at the convention. Good speakers (except Toastmasters unfortunately) I hope to see that caliber of an event some day from one of the orgs again. Maybe in Vegas or a place like that. Maybe a couple orgs and NCE get together and make it a money maker and a learning event to be remembered

Mathew Johnson
08-25-2010, 09:48 AM
John, get back on the BOD. They need you, the members need you, Rob should join you as well. Make things happen, if anyone can do it you can.

Matt

Jeff LeCours
08-25-2010, 01:25 PM
John, get back on the BOD. They need you, the members need you, Rob should join you as well. Make things happen, if anyone can do it you can.

Matt

I got a better idea. How many seats are open. Why dont' John T, Matt J, Rob H and me JL see if we can ALL get on the BOD, if we can we I am sure can get a quorum and the first thing we all do is hire Exec Director(s) This org really needs a full time ED, we ALL hire for cheap money Ron Musgraves & Carlos Gonzales as the ED's. Perfect idea, man I am always coming up with great ideas!!!!!!!

Oh Darn, John T, Rob H, Matt J & Me arent even paying/paid members, we can't be on the BOD.....Oh well, never mind.

LOL you all have a great day, Life is Good

John Tornabene
08-25-2010, 02:31 PM
Matt--Two big problems most of us are not paying members and..... most of us are not allowed to serve on the boards anymore. Why?? Because our wives say so:biggrin:

Thad Eckhoff
08-25-2010, 07:12 PM
Matt--Two big problems most of us are not paying members and..... most of us are not allowed to serve on the boards anymore. Why?? Because our wives say so:biggrin:

Well who *is* a paying member these days?

Mathew Johnson
08-25-2010, 10:37 PM
Matt--Two big problems most of us are not paying members and..... most of us are not allowed to serve on the boards anymore. Why?? Because our wives say so:biggrin:

I have that too John.... A Wife that says so (LOL)!

I do think Jeffs wife would let him.

Ron Musgraves
08-25-2010, 11:40 PM
This is where Rob Huffman the Convention Chair and his crew of Jeff L. Myself, Don Phelps and Carlos hit the homerun for this org... The rest is history but the finger pointing days are long over. Its a shame us guys and the BOD could not remedy the up coming situation at hand. This to me was the turning point of this org. and its also where I wished I never let my fellow members down by quitting.
Anyway Enjoy the pictures and maybe just maybe we can do this again as the UAMCC org.

Those are nice photos, maybe the most successful event of the year!

John Tornabene
08-25-2010, 11:53 PM
Those are nice photos, maybe the most successful event of the year!
Yup for 2009 as the line goes in one of the Frank Sinatra tunes "Was a very good year".......

Jeff LeCours
08-26-2010, 12:25 AM
Those are nice photos, maybe the most successful event of the year!

Ron I wish now the crud wasnt going on back then, you really would of enjoyed the entire event, you could of just sat back and enjoyed, the speakers, the vendors, the after hours hanging out, the people, the venue, everything The BUZZ. You would of had a blast, I did. There were many contractors I had never met or even heard of before and there was just a great buzz going on for those few days

Maybe because I helped put it together, but I felt real good and it just felt real professional and maybe just maybe the PWing industry had finally made it or was on the way to making it.

John Tornabene
08-26-2010, 02:42 AM
Ron I wish now the crud wasn't going on back then, you really would of enjoyed the entire event, you could of just sat back and enjoyed, the speakers, the vendors, the after hours hanging out, the people, the venue, everything The BUZZ. You would of had a blast, I did. There were many contractors I had never met or even heard of before and there was just a great buzz going on for those few days

Maybe because I helped put it together, but I felt real good and it just felt real professional and maybe just maybe the PWing industry had finally made it or was on the way to making it.
and Jeff you were right on. The org. was on the way of making it. I handled something wrong before I left and I wished I had stayed on and just rode Carlos to do the right thing. I took calls from him with Ron on another line to get those two to make up.
I needed to be like Ari Gold from the Show "Entourage". Just put on the bull horns and steer Carlos straight.
I quit and I was wrong in doing so. I don't mind playing the bad guy within the BOD's if it means the job gets done. That is my lone regret. Could have I flipped Carlos...Probably. Hey look I dealt with some bad people in my time including some notorious gangsters---Ron M. knows what I'm talking about so Carlos shoulda been a walk in the park to get him to see straight. Not by threats which he and yes you Jeff thought I was doing. I needed to get to him and just sit him down and just talk. Me and him. This was at the time I needed to do but....I quit. Probably I can blame myself as much as Carlos for causing the collapse of the UAMCC org. Heck I'm the one who brought Carlos into the mix( he can tell anyone that). He was my choice after Beth and a few others turned down to take the UAMCC from Robert who wanted us to take it....for nothing. Beth said no, Celeste said no and I said no. Matt Johnson may have also been asked but I don't recall that. So I brought Carlos into this mix with Beth,Rod,John Orr,Brian Penney and Cujo Cooley. Between us we all determined that Carlos was the guy and he accepted. This is why I feel so burned so in essence me and Carlos needed to sit on a park bench somewhere back then and just talk. No threats and by the end of the day if we didn't go for a nice dish of Chilean Sea Bass and some good Ruffing Chianti wine and we just said FU to each other then that would have been it. I would have left quietly because at that point there would be nothing I could do. And no, strong arming him and throwing him in the drink would not be an option in case anyone was wondering.

I feel still in my heart this org. has a small pulse left and somewhere at some time the beat of that pulse will go on. I just have to believe that. But if that beat stops it will be a sad day for Robert and many of us who believed in this contractor for contractor org. but life will go on. Yet still I hear that pulse.....

John Tornabene
08-26-2010, 02:58 AM
A couple of last possibly sad pictures of those happier times. Sad or not they left me and my wife with some great memories.

Enjoy

John Tornabene
08-26-2010, 03:02 AM
This last picture of Michael Kriesle says it all. This show went by in a flash where it was like a blur and it started to fade away.

This as good as it was should have never happened.

Mathew Johnson
08-26-2010, 08:38 AM
John, right now it seems like that you are "the pulse" of the UAMCC. I wish you well.

Ken Fenner
08-26-2010, 08:52 AM
John, it is a shame to see where the org has landed. I have heard so much anti Carlos talk, its insane. People forget one thing.. without Carlos, there would have been no org. Period. The finger pointing is like a shackle and chain that keeps this org from getting back into a run. Carlos made mistakes. You made mistakes. Jeff, Rob, me in the earlier days... all made mistakes. But one thing about everyone named is that they tried and had their heart in the right place.

Contractors.

We are all contractors. We're not the top of the business food chain. No CO's left eBay to come help with the UAMCC. Mistakes were bound to happen. Human digressions were bound to happen. In 2009 things happened. The decisions weren't always popular (ie JITB), but movement was made, gloves were tried on and the org grew.

Is there a pulse left, John? I don't know. The BOD has been underground since January. We get pops up with a rah-rah post about all of these big events on the horizon and then another 8 weeks passes without an update or announcement. Its been that way all year. You and Jeff stated you are not paying members. Thad, a moderator and you an admin of this board don't even know who is a member. No financials. No idea when and if the BOD still has meetings. I've talked to guys that have active paid memberships (due to expire soon) and they have not even received a 2010 member sticker. How long does it take to send a sticker to print? We cannot blame that on you or Carlos or any of the hoopla that happened in 2009. I am guessing the crossed fingers and high hopes that a leader will emerge and that people will start sending in money are passed dreams. Carlos took the bull by the horns and got things accomplished. Yeah, he messed up in a big way. At least he had the fortitude to take risks. Perhaps his ego got the best and he made big mistakes but he still tried and built a solid infrastructure of systems.

I'm tired of begging for updates and putting myself in the noose on the gallows when I speak out. I've done my part for this organization. Either a leader steps up and turns this thing around or the UAMCC continues its slow fade into oblivion.

Jeff LeCours
08-26-2010, 10:56 AM
Good post.................

Tony Shelton
08-26-2010, 11:56 AM
I don't understand the hurry. It's not like the status quo is running up bills for the org that can't be paid.

Every business we've owned started with a business plan. I learned after the first one that expecting to go from zero to 1 million in two years is not likely unless you have a product that sells itself (or pulls in investors with big money to promote it) The first few years are taken up setting up groundwork and streamlining methods so that in a few years it can take off like a rocket. Without that foundation any business is unprepared for when the real work starts to come in.

The UAMCC started off wrong. The wrong people were trusted to have the experience and the integrity to pull it off. Sure, there were some really good people mixed in there, but in the end a few of the wrong people made some wrong directional moves. Wasn't this considered in the planning? Didn't someone think to allow for mistakes and/or problems to slow down growth from time to time or was the business plan made with the "pie in the sky" attitude that everything starts on day one and just continues to multiply till the org is gigantic?

You always have to allow for slowdowns, problems, etc in your business plan. It's a lot better to be pleasantly surprised with good results than to be caught with your pants down - as we were in 2008,09 when the economy dealt a blow we NEVER thought could happen. But we slowed down, kept our eye on the ball, changed direction and bulldozed our way through. We didn't make it in a year. We didn't try to fix all the problems immediately, we took them on one at a time and never quit. That is what it takes to make it.

So again I say. What's the hurry? An org that can quietly make it though this and emerge growing as slow as need be is a lot more appealing than one that is hurried along (i.e. a convention it wasn't ready for) and begging for members with little to offer in the way of help for members.

Why not give these guys all the time they need? It's starting to sound like all the guys who were running the org before can't wait to see the doors closed because they are no longer running things. Is that the impression you guys are trying to give?

Who cares how many are posting on the board. In the end, the bbs doesn't make the org. This is a great opportunity! We could use this time wisely to fix problems with the bbs and the website, make sure the infrastructure is in place, talk about some ideas for the membership, find out who has talents and discuss the best way to use them, work on the future direction of the UAMCC and discuss areas where the org should get involved and areas the org has no business in. Too many of these things were bypassed in the beginning and the result was, - well, you see the result.

Lastly, while it is easy to talk about Carlos all the time and blame what has happened on him, the fact is, Carlos wouldn't have been able to wreak any havoc at all if he had been surrounded by a group of guys that were as concerned about what he was doing as they were about how many promotional posts another member was making. Everyone involved in all that junk is equally responsible for dropping the ball and putting the UAMCC where it is today. Offended? Good, now, hopefully the lesson is learned and next time don't be so blinded by your hatred OR friendships that you can be made to look so foolish. God knows I've been blinded before myself and have made the exact same mistake.

With that in mind, DON'T DROP THE BALL AGAIN by trying to make the BOD act before they are in a full position to do so. (Unless, of course, your goal is to put the nail in the coffin of the UAMCC - and if that's the case, then just say so and quit pretending)

Ken Fenner
08-26-2010, 01:08 PM
Its all that darn George Bush's fault. Why should anyone take responsibility for today when yesterday is so much easier to blame?

Mathew Johnson
08-26-2010, 03:44 PM
Tony, Great post!

Tony Shelton
08-26-2010, 04:52 PM
As evidence that an org can remain stagnant for a long time an take its time working on the inner workings and then be accepted and promoted by the industry, I humbly submit to you .......the PWNA.

Remember the hare and the turtle? Somebody was probably telling the hare to get going or they weren't going to sponsor him anymore! :)

Jeff LeCours
08-26-2010, 05:55 PM
As evidence that an org can remain stagnant for a long time an take its time working on the inner workings and then be accepted and promoted by the industry, I humbly submit to you .......the PWNA.

Remember the hare and the turtle? Somebody was probably telling the hare to get going or they weren't going to sponsor him anymore! :)

I say at one point up to recently the PWNA didnt even really care if they had a lot of members. They cared more that some could keep their KEC certificates through the PWNA for their big dollar companies. Do I fault them as businessmen trying to keep the goose that lays the golden egg going? No. Its saves some of the PWNA brass 10,000's of thousands of dollars having cheap KEC certificates from the PWNA I bet. This is just speculation and what I hear in dribs & drabs. But there are no questions about that to the top PWNA brass, UAMCC got and gets scrutinized on every little step, glad they were now, but who's watching the other Contractor Org???? Then they saw the UAMCC getting some footing and then they started waking up, its how I think of it. Might be wrong, might be right, just doesnt matter to me I am not a member of the PWNA. But the industry I make my living in, does matter to me.
I just would hope the PWNA does more and more to help ALL CONTRACTORS. Help promote our industry as true professionals, help protect us from unreasonable BMP's the list goes on etc etc

Tony Shelton
08-26-2010, 09:50 PM
I just spent about an hour reading old posts about how we were attacking the UAMCC and trying to destroy it - because Ron didn't "own" it, I guess. Roger Medbury, all the painters (where have they disappeared to?) Ken, Matt, Trey Posey and many others.

There are only two left in the dust, Ken and Matt. You have to ask yourself, "why are they in such a hurry?". Why are they acting like, "if something isn't done soon, the UAMCC is going to be dead and gone"? What is the motive behind that? What motive is there behind it?

All this talk about the BOD needing to do something fast is bullsh*t. If you guys want the BOD to do something then volunteer to do something. Otherwise quit feigning concern.

I couldn't care less what you guys think about me. You can't save me - Jesus already did that. You can't **** me, I've got a wonderful wife that does a great job. You got nothing for me. But you do have a contractor for contractor org that could be something good. I would like to see that happen.

So, at this point I'm just putting it out there like I always do. My suggestion is to look over the past posts. If you were fooled by the ED, then maybe just take a moment to reflect on your naivety before you judge the motives of the "naysayers". (Unless you are a know-it-all and then you can follow the advice of Michael and stfu. :)

Tony Shelton
08-26-2010, 09:52 PM
BTW if I'm wrong (Matt and Ken) let everyone know what you would volunteer to do to help make the BOD and the UAMCC succeed. And please, be specific.

Jeff LeCours
08-26-2010, 10:53 PM
I just spent about an hour reading old posts about how we were attacking the UAMCC and trying to destroy it - because Ron didn't "own" it, I guess. Roger Medbury, all the painters (where have they disappeared to?) Ken, Matt, Trey Posey and many others.

There are only two left in the dust, Ken and Matt. You have to ask yourself, "why are they in such a hurry?". Why are they acting like, "if something isn't done soon, the UAMCC is going to be dead and gone"? What is the motive behind that? What motive is there behind it?

All this talk about the BOD needing to do something fast is bullsh*t. If you guys want the BOD to do something then volunteer to do something. Otherwise quit feigning concern.

I couldn't care less what you guys think about me. You can't save me - Jesus already did that. You can't **** me, I've got a wonderful wife that does a great job. You got nothing for me. But you do have a contractor for contractor org that could be something good. I would like to see that happen.

So, at this point I'm just putting it out there like I always do. My suggestion is to look over the past posts. If you were fooled by the ED, then maybe just take a moment to reflect on your naivety before you judge the motives of the "naysayers". (Unless you are a know-it-all and then you can follow the advice of Michael and stfu. :)

Tony, I think, I know most are mostly concerned about lack of communication, I understand the lack of communication may be because they are working on things, but I can't and you shouldn't expect anyone to blindly believe in something that hasn't shown promis, benefits yet or communicated well. You havent joined and you have questioned many things even within these past few months. Everyone and anyone has the right to question the direction of this UAMCC you have and you weren't even a member, Ken & Matt were, they both invested time, money and heart

I believe the BOD is working on things and the prodding from us and others isnt bashing, its concern

You know what I mean? And please don't be to specific LOL

Tony Shelton
08-26-2010, 11:02 PM
I hope it's not bashing. These guys have been sitting on pins and needles trying to get the UAMCC in the hands of contractors with the least amount of legal problems. I understand the concern about them "doing nothing", but I wouldn't do a lot either if I wasn't 100% sure of the ownership of the org. That's why we haven't joined yet. Maybe the prodding is just a little bit premature as was the drive for members to re-up.

Ken Fenner
08-26-2010, 11:12 PM
Tony, you are a walking bore fest. You carry around this mirror of profound perception like many people do but the irony is.. those people never point that mirror at themselves. Its easier for them to stand behind it. I guess they feel like they are fooling someone besides themselves with their self proclaimed perfect moral compass.

Matt: Donated sizable amounts of money, joined the org right away and launched the org at one of the best round tables I have ever attended.
Tony Shelton: Did not invest a nickel.

Ken: Invested over a year of life, 7 days per week, hours every day helping with planning and building and making business plans. Speaking at a round table. Calling local contractors and convincing them to take a look at what we were doing. Designing the website and building the forum which you write on... making sure the org had viable income to sustain the web marketing.
Tony Shelton: Did not invest any time other than obviously not reading any of the business plans or updates but feeling the need to spend hours bashing the org on forums.

Motives? It is your motives that many question. One day you hate the org. The next day you are a moderator that still spews the same venom and hatred and hides behind a bible and some quotes. Why do YOU care about the org so much now? I think any normal thinking person can understand why people that have invested in the org have an interest in it. What is your reason? Have YOU joined yet? Talk is cheap.

In a hurry? Come on. 8 months, brother. Let me see you or any of us put our customers on hold for 8 months. You are being emotional. Think logically for a second before you hit that "send". This org and its moderators are playing a game of strong arming. Don't question, don't speak out or else you get the wrath. That makes me laugh and yank yer chain harder. You've owned businesses for a long time, Tony. You sh-t or you get off the pot. Is that an inaccurate statement?

Rob Huffman
08-26-2010, 11:25 PM
Ken,
Please refrain from saying anything about the moderators strong arming anyone. You know thats not the truth. You are also opening a whole can of worms with putting Matt and yourself in a mix of monkey poo....should I continue?

Jeff LeCours
08-26-2010, 11:41 PM
Ken,
Please refrain from saying anything about the moderators strong arming anyone. You know thats not the truth. You are also opening a whole can of worms with putting Matt and yourself in a mix of monkey poo....should I continue?

I think Ken has the right like anyone to make statements. Rob forget about cans of worms, monkey poo and all that behind door number two stuff and just let people speak

You know what I mean?

Jeff LeCours
08-26-2010, 11:44 PM
Bore fest....lmao, I like that one. I like Tony in person and on the phone, but on the BB's many things, ya borefest can fit at times LOL

Heck he's almost as bad as me with long babbling post

Now I want everyone to remember play nice and Life is Good!!!!!!

Ken Fenner
08-26-2010, 11:45 PM
Ken,
Please refrain from saying anything about the moderators strong arming anyone. You know thats not the truth. You are also opening a whole can of worms with putting Matt and yourself in a mix of monkey poo....should I continue?

Should you continue what? Proving my point about the strong arming? Please do. That's a threat for speaking my opinion.

I love irony.

John Tornabene
08-27-2010, 12:05 AM
Lets be fair here. Us guys posting here are probably more passionate about the UAMCC then most. The finger pointing and the blame game is over. We all can say whatever it is that we want but until the UAMCC BOD come out with any news there is no point in us guys dragging each other down. We all should get some credit for helping the UAMCC get off to a decent re-start and most of us should also take some of the blame for it doing a backslide. Yes you can say some guys did more positive things for the UAMCC then others did and some did more negative to the UAMCC then others did but finger pointing gets this org. nowhere.
Yes I make it clear about my thoughts on Carlos and I also take some of the blame because I quit. My emotions ran the gamut probably like some others did to. I say its over.....Turn the page. Take it all in stride and hopefully all involved learned something from it. I know I did.

Lets see if the BOD wants to come out with some news which just about all of us hope they will. Heck the BOD can say like the PWNA did years ago to get rid of the bb. I hope they don't do that because its an information hwy to the org. and back but regardless its time for them to say....something.

So lets keep this post constructive and try try to not let it blow up by doing the blame game and getting nasty about it. Where all professionals because we get paid for what we do and that is thru contracting,Distribution etc.

Mathew Johnson
08-27-2010, 09:13 AM
Should you continue what? Proving my point about the strong arming? Please do. That's a threat for speaking my opinion.

I love irony.

Ken, Please stop, I dont want to upset Mr. Monkey Poo

Tony Shelton
08-27-2010, 05:11 PM
Matt: Donated sizable amounts of money, joined the org right away and launched the org at one of the best round tables I have ever attended.
Tony Shelton: Did not invest a nickel.

How much did Matt invest Ken? What is that number? If this was a non-profit there should be records of that. How much did he demand back Ken? How much was returned to him? Don't throw out BS that you can't back up. How much did you and Matt pay for your memberships? If you want the poo we can stir up the poo. Do you think these people reading this are idiots?

I give Matt credit for putting on a good event. But what you guys provided was an event that was a platform for an unvetted leadership to take money from "marks" and spend it on whatever they pleased. That kindof throws another slant on it doesn't it?

How many contractors were at your "event"? How many vendors? I had 4 vendors and 50 contractors. I refused to invite the same unvetted leadership to my roundtable.

Now how proud are you of the "Event" that siphoned money from the contractor's pockets? I'm proud of my "little" event.

Ken: Invested over a year of life, 7 days per week, hours every day helping with planning and building and making business plans. Speaking at a round table. Calling local contractors and convincing them to take a look at what we were doing. Designing the website and building the forum which you write on... making sure the org had viable income to sustain the web marketing.
Tony Shelton: Did not invest any time other than obviously not reading any of the business plans or updates but feeling the need to spend hours bashing the org on forums.

So you're saying you didn't work last year and donated all your time to the UAMCC??? How much of that time was spent simply slinging mud at me, Ron, Scott Stone and anybody else who dared question the leadership?

You went to "a" roundtable Ken?

The people who were really invested went to MULTIPLE roundtables all year and most of it was paid out of their own pockets. I've never seen you Ken. Do you really exist? I've been to over half of all the PW events in the past two years. Where have you been? I suppose you've been too busy spending 7 days a week planting back doors in the BBS so you can read everybody's emails and get private information to tive to a select few just like your com padre on the greasers board does. How surprised were you when the new BOD jerked the BBS out of your little hands? Do you like this poo. I've got a lot more. So you can lay your Halo down and quit pretending to be a UAMCC martyr. It might work on a board where people don't know what you've been doing for the past year, but it won't work here.

Motives? It is your motives that many question. One day you hate the org. The next day you are a moderator that still spews the same venom and hatred and hides behind a bible and some quotes. Why do YOU care about the org so much now? I think any normal thinking person can understand why people that have invested in the org have an interest in it. What is your reason? Have YOU joined yet? Talk is cheap.

I've never hated "the org". I've been a proponent of the org since I heard about it in 2008. I hate DECEPTION. I will spew venom about deception as long as I have breath. From the beginning I've believed that people shouldn't join an org purported to represent an industry for the sole purpose of getting "bennies". If you think you have to somehow get back some of the money you've "invested" in it, I say you were involved in it for the wrong reasons in the first place. You and the kind you represent are out. A group that wants to better the industry is in. I understand why you don't like it. Your are no longer captain of the "ship" that had already "set sail". You are now standing on the shore thinking "what can I do to sink it, it shouldn't even float without me behind the wheel". That is why you are dogging the BOD to hurry up. You know hurrying is the reason the ship sunk in the first place and you can't stand the idea that someone can sail something you sunk.

In a hurry? Come on. 8 months, brother. Let me see you or any of us put our customers on hold for 8 months. You are being emotional. Think logically for a second before you hit that "send". This org and its moderators are playing a game of strong arming. Don't question, don't speak out or else you get the wrath. That makes me laugh and yank yer chain harder. You've owned businesses for a long time, Tony. You sh-t or you get off the pot. Is that an inaccurate statement?

Yank all you like. At the end of that rope is the sh*t that you hope doesn't come out because you think people are too courteous to bring it up in public. I'm not courteous.



Answers in blue above.

All I'm asking the members who are still around to do is to remember who put the org where it is now. It wasn't just Carlos. It was a group of people who wouldn't listen to ANYTHING that wasn't in full praise of him or the TT in general. This org was brought down by inaction as much as action. Those who didn't act should be carefully evaluated before listening to them.

And to both Ken and Matt, you guys both have a lot to offer a contractor org. Unfortunately directional advice is not one of the things you two are skilled in. How about letting the BOD decide the direction and you two contribute with something you are skilled in like "making business plans" or "putting on roundtables".

Mathew Johnson
08-27-2010, 05:49 PM
Answers in blue above.

All I'm asking the members who are still around to do is to remember who put the org where it is now. It wasn't just Carlos. It was a group of people who wouldn't listen to ANYTHING that wasn't in full praise of him or the TT in general. This org was brought down by inaction as much as action. Those who didn't act should be carefully evaluated before listening to them.

And to both Ken and Matt, you guys both have a lot to offer a contractor org. Unfortunately directional advice is not one of the things you two are skilled in. How about letting the BOD decide the direction and you two contribute with something you are skilled in like "making business plans" or "putting on roundtables".

OK Tony, You are right as usual. I will stick to business plans and round tables. I wasnt offering adivice, I was inquiring into what was going on for believe it or not - sincere reasons. I have three companies that between vendor memberships and contractor memberships could dump $1386.00 into the UAMCC coffers.

Now that you bring it up, I am planning (and have been for a while) another North Eastern Pressure Washing Seminar in the Spring of 2011. I have had over two dozen inquirys from the past attendees this year. Who knows, a local distributor may give a pressure washer away. Look for details later in the year. This is still in the planning stages and we are trying to get "all of the stars" aligned to make it happen. Hell tony, I might even be able to cover your room and air fare to come teach a vent class if you are interested and if there are enough people interested.

Rob Huffman
08-27-2010, 06:17 PM
Ken,
You are so thoughtful on the irony and took that a lil wrong. Just because you sided with your "bro" and not me is ok. Really. I have seen the sides of people that I never knew. You can pick and choose as I can which friends we want. I just choose ones that are honest and not backdoor dealing types. Was it not you that called me forst asking me not to air out the dirty laundry? Just answer that. I know you wont discuss the stuff Tony mentioned...I know I wouldnt.

Matt,
you are a funny guy. I love your comments to say the least. I am sure Hydrotek has to be proud to have you as a dealer. Congrats on running 3 businesses too. Must take alot of time and effort. Hope they are successful ones...Oh yeah ACR is having a round table in the spring too. Guess you knew that?

Mathew Johnson
08-27-2010, 06:36 PM
Ken,
You are so thoughtful on the irony and took that a lil wrong. Just because you sided with your "bro" and not me is ok. Really. I have seen the sides of people that I never knew. You can pick and choose as I can which friends we want. I just choose ones that are honest and not backdoor dealing types. Was it not you that called me forst asking me not to air out the dirty laundry? Just answer that. I know you wont discuss the stuff Tony mentioned...I know I wouldnt.

Matt,
you are a funny guy. I love your comments to say the least. I am sure Hydrotek has to be proud to have you as a dealer. Congrats on running 3 businesses too. Must take alot of time and effort. Hope they are successful ones...Oh yeah ACR is having a round table in the spring too. Guess you knew that?

Rob,

thanks for your comments. and yes, I knew that - they run one every spring, Tom and Barb run excellent round tables. Thats the beauty of 30,000 pressure washing contractors in this country, there are plenty to go around to attend different round tables. If I remember correctly, Henry ran concurrently with Toms's in your back yard last year and both had a great turnout

Jeff LeCours
08-27-2010, 06:38 PM
Ken,
You are so thoughtful on the irony and took that a lil wrong. Just because you sided with your "bro" and not me is ok. Really. I have seen the sides of people that I never knew. You can pick and choose as I can which friends we want. I just choose ones that are honest and not backdoor dealing types. Was it not you that called me forst asking me not to air out the dirty laundry? Just answer that. I know you wont discuss the stuff Tony mentioned...I know I wouldnt.

Matt,
you are a funny guy. I love your comments to say the least. I am sure Hydrotek has to be proud to have you as a dealer. Congrats on running 3 businesses too. Must take alot of time and effort. Hope they are successful ones...Oh yeah ACR is having a round table in the spring too. Guess you knew that?

Oh Rob relax or Matt & I might get you to quit the PWNA too. Its not about us contractors saying crap to each other its about bettering our industry

Its about love LOL

Tony Shelton
08-27-2010, 07:00 PM
OK Tony, You are right as usual. I will stick to business plans and round tables. I wasnt offering adivice, I was inquiring into what was going on for believe it or not - sincere reasons. I have three companies that between vendor memberships and contractor memberships could dump $1386.00 into the UAMCC coffers.

Now that you bring it up, I am planning (and have been for a while) another North Eastern Pressure Washing Seminar in the Spring of 2011. I have had over two dozen inquirys from the past attendees this year. Who knows, a local distributor may give a pressure washer away. Look for details later in the year. This is still in the planning stages and we are trying to get "all of the stars" aligned to make it happen. Hell tony, I might even be able to cover your room and air fare to come teach a vent class if you are interested and if there are enough people interested.

Matt, you put on a good roundtable. It was better than mine, I will give you that. But if we got together we could put on a roundtable like the world has never seen!

I'll pay for my room first and you'll reimburse me right? :)

Rob Huffman
08-27-2010, 07:00 PM
Jeff,
LOL are you sniffing the bleach? You nor anyone could make me quit the valuable org's I am a member of. My business is phenomonal this year. We are actually starting a new venture soon.

Matt,
I dont know if that was true or not. I like Tom and Barbs. Its always had some information to further my business...

Jeff LeCours
08-27-2010, 07:04 PM
Matt, you put on a good roundtable. It was better than mine, I will give you that. But if we got together we could put on a roundtable like the world has never seen!

I'll pay for my room first and you'll reimburse me right? :)

Personalities and opinions aside, joking is fun. There is some funny jabs and jokes going on. I want to click the "LIKE" button but this isnt Facebook

You all have a great weekend. Guess what I am doing tomorrow? Partying like a Rock Star! YAHOO

Ken Fenner
08-27-2010, 07:06 PM
Tone, your skewed facts require some re-steering. I left this org as a volunteer in April 2009. The day the org opened its doors my tenure was over. In my wake I left a top ranked website, revenue to support continued web marketing, a pressure washing blog/news site, and this forum. All of it worked perfectly. It needed much more further refinement, but it all worked.

You can think I am stroking ego, but I did exactly what I was brought on board for. I'm not a puppet, Tony (cough and laugh). Remember, I worked for Carlos. The TT before we opened was governed by Carlos. This was given to him. We wouldn't have gotten anything done with 8 bosses. When we didn't agree with something, we told him. Sometimes he changed, sometimes he didn't. Ultimately, he was the boss. EVERYTHING was done with contractors in mind. What possibly could we have gained from contractors???? Most new guys are broke or buried upside down under mortgages. This org would owe me six figures for the time I put into it. Trust me, the UAMCC would be a long slow return on my investment.

When I left, in April 2009, I left. I didn't call and ask about the org. I took the member sidelines. Nobody called Ken to ask him what he thought about anything the org did in 2009. Its just weird you think that. I'm flattered, really, that you think I have that much power and control. I'm a small time contractor. No hidden doors or curtains to reveal a grand scheme. That's best left for the guys with the foil hats and conspiracy theories.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:TfkzP6taRSCRvM:http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll234/therealkeng/tin-foil-hat.jpg&t=1

Where do you get the notion that anybody is seeking any type of retro compensation?

We are joking about the ridiculous nature of your allegations because well... you never did anything. Nothing, Tony. You have created this phantom of some secret corruption. We woke up, put our shoes on just like you, talked about the infrastructure, future plans, marketing, PR. We made adjustments and got the org ready for launch. Then we launched. People liked it. They joined. The Cleaner Times.. they took notice. The PWNA, they took notice. People that couldn't stand the spotlight not being on them.. you took notice.

In 2010, the day-to-day transgressions appear like utter incompetence. Yet, because your puppet master is happy, you are happy (that's just my opinion). You know what I think about you, Tony. I doubt I will ever like you because you set off my internal red flags. That shouldn't stop you from coming out to meet me. We may have a totally different experience in person.

Tony Shelton
08-27-2010, 07:54 PM
No doubt our meeting will be a love fest. I apologize for inflaming our internal flags or whatever. Maybe you can have that checked out when we all have free medical care next year.... :)

As far as my "never doing anything" I've spent the past two years speaking at roundtables mostly on my own dime. I have lost considerable amounts of money doing this. Contractors call me quite a bit telling me how they just made $300 or $900 or $5k because of things I taught them. This was for the contractors. I will never get out the money I put into it and I don't care. I could have been doing this under the UAMCC banner all this time if the leadership (including and especially you) had shown some integrity from the beginning and not been so bent on excluding the very means of their rapid growth (Ron).

You can keep talking till you are blue in the face. I can speak from experience when I say that when someone gets caught at one thing, chances are pretty high that they've done LOTS of similar things they've never been caught at.

Was there a phantom corruption outside of what we already know about the ED? How can we ever know for sure? Maybe we can't, but as John would tell you, from a cop's standpoint you have to look for clues.

What were the clues of willingness to allow/participate in corruption? How about installing back doors in the bbs? How about fighting the BOD tooth and nail for the bbs. How about sabotaging it? These are all clues that make the case. See, Ken, if one breaches trust and either has no conscience or allows situational ethics to guide their conscience one opens a pandora's box of future temptations that are difficult to resist......After the first seedy affair it just gets easier and easier the next time.

It's not too late though. All one has to do is learn from the past and don't repeat it. But while one is learning, they shouldn't expect everyone to just "take their word on it".

BTW. I found this to be so funny it made it where I can't complete my usual book-like response:

I'm not a puppet, Tony (cough and laugh). Remember, I worked for Carlos. The TT before we opened was governed by Carlos. This was given to him. We wouldn't have gotten anything done with 8 bosses. When we didn't agree with something, we told him. Sometimes he changed, sometimes he didn't. Ultimately, he was the boss.

Call me crazy, but that sounds like a puppet. And a poor example of how to lay a foundation for leadership. Heck even the US government has some sort of checks and balances.

Call me a puppet all you like if it makes you feel better. I don't have anyone who is "ultimately" my boss. (Except for God) (I had to throw that one in there for a little more fuel)

Jeff LeCours
08-27-2010, 09:43 PM
You all are puppets....very scary puppets..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzKy6-ue6sY&feature=related

I'm not much for having any one pull my strings, but I sure like pulling down G Strings Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

You all are some crazy people puppets

Its the freaking weekend, every one enjoy

Tony Shelton
08-27-2010, 11:02 PM
Jeff you are definitely a master debater my friend. Have a great weekend. Go spend some of that money you haul to the bank every week!

Jeff LeCours
08-28-2010, 07:40 AM
Jeff you are definitely a master debater my friend. Have a great weekend. Go spend some of that money you haul to the bank every week!

Out of all the videos you have done, this one is really informative. Good work my friend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmRIP5TfoJg&feature=related

Tony Shelton
08-28-2010, 08:00 AM
Did you give it a thumbs up?

Chris Tharpe
09-05-2010, 09:05 AM
. I'm a small time contractor.


What happened to the several crews you have running for you and the 80k months. Last I checked thats no small contractor? Ken I haven't been on here in weeks and yet more chit has erupted from your mouth

Mathew Johnson
09-05-2010, 06:07 PM
What happened to the several crews you have running for you and the 80k months. Last I checked thats no small contractor? Ken I haven't been on here in weeks and yet more chit has erupted from your mouth

I can't yet figure out why there is very little traffic on this BBS or why the other BBS get multiple new contractor members each week and this one doesn't. This BBS use to have large UAMACC crowds. Irony at its best given the title of the thread verses the content.

John Tornabene
09-05-2010, 07:19 PM
Good point Matt. I have to look at this thread later because there was a couple of things in there that should probably be removed to another area. Nothing serious

Ken Fenner
09-05-2010, 10:34 PM
What happened to the several crews you have running for you and the 80k months. Last I checked thats no small contractor? Ken I haven't been on here in weeks and yet more chit has erupted from your mouth

Remind me again.. who are you?

We are all (including a Ron Musgraves size company) small time contractors.

Tony Shelton
09-06-2010, 12:46 AM
You don't recognize early uamcc members Ken? The are only about 100.

Chris is a fast moving young cotractor who has been to a lot of events. Most of the guys have met him. I wonder why you haven't.

John Tornabene
09-06-2010, 01:44 AM
OK this thread has reached its potential and now its starting to turn down hill with no apparent positive upside. Sorry guys but to keep this from heading towards being unprofessional which is the way its heading I am closing the post.