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cleantheroof
11-08-2010, 07:08 PM
During a hot month in the summer I washed a roof for a customer and everything turned out great as always. I was called back a few days later claiming that the roof cleaning solution had spotted the windows, claiming after it rained it went off roof and all over windows. It was the well water that had spotted the windows from my ground guy spraying plants and the gutter facing. I was then called back 2 weeks later claiming my roof cleaning solution browned her pine tree and making the needles fall off mind you it had not rained in about a month and was in the 90's temp wise also everything was browning grass, plants etc. The client then called the state pesticide office claming I used pesticides. Told them its approved by shingle manuf and no pesticides were used. They emailed me back stating they would take samples of tree needles and soil. Any suggestions?

William Page
11-08-2010, 07:15 PM
Get ready to pay for a pine tree.

cleantheroof
11-08-2010, 07:21 PM
I contacted my insurance guy and he said nope we wont pay for it. A sample was sent off at first and the test came back inconclusive. The customer replied well who cares what it said just buy me a new tree. I take pride in my work as we all do and I wont let this customer convince others that pesticides were used. Ludacris!

welder
11-08-2010, 07:30 PM
Clean the roof, I think you need to fix your signature, people are a lot friendlier if they know who they are talking to. Besides, the signature police will give you a infraction and send you to the land of Infractionville.

Russ Spence
11-08-2010, 07:59 PM
Signature police here, please fill out your signature and you will get many more replies.

And sorry for your troubles too by the way.

Scott Davis
11-08-2010, 08:45 PM
Is the tree in an spot that your chemss COULD have damaged it? Have a horticulturist come out to determine if the tree is dead. If it is then replace it. If not, Dont. Very simple.

Jim Cooney
11-08-2010, 08:48 PM
If your insurance agent is refusing the claim, might want to consider getting a better insurance agent/policy.

Chris Tucker
11-08-2010, 09:00 PM
During a hot month in the summer I washed a roof for a customer and everything turned out great as always. I was called back a few days later claiming that the roof cleaning solution had spotted the windows, claiming after it rained it went off roof and all over windows. It was the well water that had spotted the windows from my ground guy spraying plants and the gutter facing. I was then called back 2 weeks later claiming my roof cleaning solution browned her pine tree and making the needles fall off mind you it had not rained in about a month and was in the 90's temp wise also everything was browning grass, plants etc. The client then called the state pesticide office claming I used pesticides. Told them its approved by shingle manuf and no pesticides were used. They emailed me back stating they would take samples of tree needles and soil. Any suggestions? I would wait on the tree and soil samples, did you have a competitor in on this job ? Sounds to me like someone is geeking this customer up to find something wrong ? Next thing you know, she will blame you for her arthritis maybe ? Scott had a good suggestion too with a horticulturist. Many state universities have free of charge agricultural extension services offering soil samples. I would get them ASAP! Like they say, "If you want peace, prepare for war".

cleantheroof
11-08-2010, 09:10 PM
A sample of the branch was sent off to the local landscape company that got it tested. It came back inconclusive and they said they didnt know what it was. The client said i dont care what they say my tree is browning because of you and I will call the bbb on you and ruin your business. The client just wants me to blame and thats it final. This is during a time when it was in the middle of August and no rain for weeks everything killing off. And as to call the pesticide division is just fishing for answers. I will just have to stand my ground, pesticides are not used in roof cleaning and its obsurd, when you go to the point of just finding anything to bring blame watch out everybody those are the ones that cannot be reasoned with.

cleantheroof
11-08-2010, 09:20 PM
As to answer your question apple roof cleaning about a competitor being involved no there was not. This all happened in August and is now November. Never ever have i had any complaints I take pride in my work and bust my butt to do a great job. The landscape company even said to me, "Do they even water the tree it is hot and humid out and everything is dying" They didnt water the tree ever! Openly admitted this to me. The pesticide divison said for all roof cleaners to never say we kill algae it refers to pesticide use because pesticides kill things. Wasnt saying I was wrong he just said this is a message for all in the business, felt like a sheriff warning you in a small town LOL

Scott Davis
11-08-2010, 09:55 PM
Thats absurd. Always push the fact that you kill algae 100%. If a bunch of other stuff is dead that you couldnt have possibly killed then its probably not your fault. How long after the cleaning did they notify you that there was a problem?

Ron Musgraves
11-08-2010, 10:36 PM
I see oportunity for orgs to assist in these Battles. No get directly involved but helping the contractors with literature stating proper methods. Of course no one knows if they where followed but this could be a start in the correct advocacy of orgs.

cleantheroof
11-08-2010, 10:37 PM
I was originally called a few days later stating that the windows were spotted possibly from the roof cleaning solution, found it was the water that dried up from my ground guy water plants and gutter facings, they have hard well water. Proved it by cleaning a window and then watering it and watching it spot. But to answer your question 2 weeks later i was called about the tree. The tree was fine when i showed up to clean windows for them everything looked great roof looked amazing, it just went south after that the blaming game and assuming. But yea about the killing comment it is absurd, but the pesticide department said for your own sake dont say or use it on web site it links to killing pests, which i think is crazy.

Scott Davis
11-08-2010, 11:32 PM
I actually specifically compare the algae to a pest, not just a stain and that we achieve 100% kill ratio. Nobody else around you will do that and it will make you stand out.

Jim Cooney
11-08-2010, 11:51 PM
I always provide each and every customer a MSDS sheet of the solutions we will be using on their project with the bid package. Since we use environmentally safe, biodegradable solutions, we have never, ever had any issues.

The hard water spots on the glass is a lesson learned. We have very hard water here also, and unless you professionally clean the effected exterior glass immediately after the scope of work, the minerals can actually begin to etch the glass.

You insurance agent should be handling this for you. Since your insurance agent dumped on you, I'd suggest you find a better insurance agent.

William Page
11-09-2010, 07:35 AM
I still say, but the tree and move on. If you cleaned a roof with bleach and only one tree died, you killed it. If all the trees died, then blame it on the weather and dry season. Never turn any thing over to your insurance that is less than 10K.

cleantheroof
11-09-2010, 11:24 AM
William, it wasnt just that tree. In the front yard about 100 feet from house another trees leaves were dying off also the front lawn was brown and dead looking. MY point was the client went to the extreme of saying pesticides was used. Making false claims and assumptions. I am moving on about this topic and I thank everyone for hearing me out, if none of you have dealt with someone to this extreme measure watch out they are out there. I just didnt want one person to try and convince a department that we roof cleaners use pesticides to clean roofs, next it will be said toxins were used and the animals on the property have morphed into odd creatures LOL thanks everybody

Henry Bockman
11-10-2010, 12:48 AM
You shouldn't have anything to worry about unless your making your own chemical mixture to clean roofs. If your mixing up your own chemicals for it and you don't have an msds or insurance for manufacturing chemicals you could have one hell of a mess with this client.

If your buying your chems, just turn them over to the manufacturer and let them deal with it.

Henry Bockman
11-10-2010, 12:48 AM
You shouldn't have anything to worry about unless your making your own chemical mixture to clean roofs. If your mixing up your own chemicals for it and you don't have an msds or insurance for manufacturing chemicals you could have one hell of a mess with this client.

If your buying your chems, just turn them over to the manufacturer and let them deal with it.

Russ Spence
11-10-2010, 09:00 AM
You shouldn't have anything to worry about unless your making your own chemical mixture to clean roofs. If your mixing up your own chemicals for it and you don't have an msds or insurance for manufacturing chemicals you could have one hell of a mess with this client.

If your buying your chems, just turn them over to the manufacturer and let them deal with it.
Henry, very good answer!

We cleaned many roofs in the past and this summer decided to stop. There was too much liability, first the added insurance cost to cover me or someone else on a roof made my head spin, second mixing chems, leaking pumps, leaking bulkheads thru the years are very frustrating as well.

Yes there is good money to be made but I started thinking the exact thing you just stated, unless I mix on site I am taking a huge risk, if we had an accident or a spill it would be aweful, could you see me trying to show the DOT an MSDS for some surfactant like Borax plus TSP and 12.5% Sodium Hypochlorite? Oh my oh my, I bet the guys head would pop off when he found out I had all that mixed together and had no license to manufacture.

That being said I sort of like AC's new thing with the powered chems, I watched the video and it seems a safe alternative, he provides you with the formula to mix the chems and they are transported dry and not mixed. May be worth looking into. Plus he provides the MSDS and the instructions ect so I am assuming he has looked into the legal end of it as well. I will have to dig further on that one.

In closing, not to poke at Mark but Mark you have a serious issue on your hands, I spend a lot of time on our yard and my wife would throw a fit if that had happened here, another thing, I would look at the neighbors homes, if they still look good around there house you may be replacing more than a tree before its over. If the tree is found to be caused by you I am sure a judge will naturally assume that the rest was too.

Thad Eckhoff
11-10-2010, 09:16 AM
How many other people who do roofs now are thinking about (or already have) dropping them?

cleantheroof
11-10-2010, 05:34 PM
Thanks for the replies back. I do carry a msds sheet with me and i use the same chemicals everyone else in the biz is using. Using love and ammonyx lo or i use dawn. I dont use borax or tsp. I mix right at the job site i dont carry anything mixed. Also I only carry enough for that specific job so that i am not over the limit from the DOT. Like i said it was in the middle of August very hot very humid no rain everything dead looking, the client agreed everything else looked bad even before i started the job didnt deny that. The client was just determined on that tree, when i went back to clean her windows from her hard water stains from my ground guy rinsing everything good the tree looked fine this was even a week after i did the job. As time went on still no rain, conditions of temp and humidity still bad, i took pics all over town down the street even went to landscape company 5 mins away all there trees and plants brown and dead looking from heat. A test was taken on needles came back inconclusive, tried to reason and talk no good. So the guy from pesticide division said, she called and said he has to be using pesticides. Thats the problem right there throwing claims like that ridiculous! Called ARMA they even said love, tsp, dawn, ammonyx not pesticides, I even called a chemist no not classified as pesticide. Point blank I tried to reason with someone who didnt want to reason and at worse making false claims. I agree there is alot of liability with cleaning roofs, thats why I am making people sign a form that states during the hot and dry conditions plants can slowly die off, love that we use can kill plants if............. you dont water,dont bag gutters, dont use tarps. I take precautions and everyone else i cleaned roofs for understood that and no problems. From here on out a form for roof cleaning is looked over and signed. I did talk to Chris about this in the past when it first happened and he also said it was ridiculous about the claims of pesticides.

cleantheroof
11-10-2010, 05:46 PM
Russ you mentioned you dont like cleaning roofs because of the liability. From what i have read on the threads you do alot of flat work cleaning. Would you rather just do that and nothing else? From your experience I am curious. Thanks

cleantheroof
11-10-2010, 05:50 PM
Scott, I was told its bad to even state that you KILL algae, or KILL bacteria. KILL is classified as pesticide terms, nuts I know but thats what i was told. So I had to take that off my site and put remove algae or algae free roofs. I was notified about 2 weeks after, if you read some of my posts youll see. Main problem is this - throwing out the use of pesticides point blank. KILL Algae= those are curse words LOL

Russ Spence
11-10-2010, 06:38 PM
Russ you mentioned you dont like cleaning roofs because of the liability. From what i have read on the threads you do alot of flat work cleaning. Would you rather just do that and nothing else? From your experience I am curious. Thanks
Mark, at some point you have to decide what is best for you and your company, we looked back over the last 5 years and saw that 93% of our income was commercial and 5% was residential homes, drives ect, 2% was roof cleaning.

Roof cleaning cost us the most money from an insurance stand point, there was more liability with taking a chance on someone falling, damaged landscapes, lung damage to employees ect. So it just made since not to look into it any further for us. I do still have it advertised on our site but I will just hand it off to the local guy here that I am partners with if I get anymore calls.

Personally for me we do a ton of flatwork and building washes, that is where we are best and do a good job and do it quickly. So that is where our concentration is these days.

Russ Spence
11-10-2010, 06:39 PM
Also as I stated previously the added liability of driving with that much chemical and taking the risk of something happening on the road. Kinda freaks me out!

cleantheroof
11-10-2010, 08:19 PM
You do make alot of great points. I myself am slowly trying to get into more commercial work. I have read tons of threads and other imformation about flat work. Tomorrow I have an appointment with a restaurant manager that claims they never had it pressure washed, the sidewalks and dumpster area that is. Made a cold call and atleast he is taking the time to meet with me. I myself would rather get into more commercial work like yourself Russ because residental at times can be more mental work than anything.

Henry Bockman
11-11-2010, 08:46 AM
Thanks for the replies back. I do carry a msds sheet with me and i use the same chemicals everyone else in the biz is using. Using love and ammonyx lo or i use dawn. I dont use borax or tsp. I mix right at the job site i dont carry anything mixed. Also I only carry enough for that specific job so that i am not over the limit from the DOT.


What manufacturer is covering the liability on your mix, and gave you the msds for your mixture? Sodium hypochlorite strength can change day to day so how accurate can the mix be on a daily basis? Did your supplier get in a new supply of SH? Maybe that changed the strength of you mix causing the plant issue?

There are way to many variables and liabilities out there and when people sue as easily thses days mixing your own chems can easily land you in court or living on the street.

I must have slept through this...

When did dawn or other dish washing soaps become professional grade cleaning products recognized by the pressure washing industry?

Why is something good for washing my dishes and GREAT for my hands, suddenly the top detergent for exterior cleaning?

Come on guys if your going to market yourselves as pros, sell yourself as pros, and charge pro rates, stop playing kitchen magician and acting like one of those weekend Pw guys working for beer money! Run a business and run it right!

This forum represents the Pw industry so these home made recipes should not be on here! All it does is promote guys to make up their own stuff illegally and irresponsibly in some cases and damage the industries respect.

Jim Cooney
11-11-2010, 09:28 AM
10+ As always, Henry makes an excellent point.


What manufacturer is covering the liability on your mix, and gave you the msds for your mixture? Sodium hypochlorite strength can change day to day so how accurate can the mix be on a daily basis? Did your supplier get in a new supply of SH? Maybe that changed the strength of you mix causing the plant issue?

There are way to many variables and liabilities out there and when people sue as easily thses days mixing your own chems can easily land you in court or living on the street.

I must have slept through this...

When did dawn or other dish washing soaps become professional grade cleaning products recognized by the pressure washing industry?

Why is something good for washing my dishes and GREAT for my hands, suddenly the top detergent for exterior cleaning?

Come on guys if your going to market yourselves as pros, sell yourself as pros, and charge pro rates, stop playing kitchen magician and acting like one of those weekend Pw guys working for beer money! Run a business and run it right!

This forum represents the Pw industry so these home made recipes should not be on here! All it does is promote guys to make up their own stuff illegally and irresponsibly in some cases and damage the industries respect.

cleantheroof
11-11-2010, 01:14 PM
I use sodium hypochlorite and ammonyx LO, I was just stating the recipes used in the industry. I agree with you and I understand where you are coming from about being professional. Look at alot of the threads tons of people use dawn in there mix and thats what they used in the past before ammonyx LO or M. I agree with you about kitchen remedies. I use to use dawn long time ago as a surfactant like many others but as time went on i learned and use ammonyx. Maybe you should start a new thread about what should be used today. Then as time goes on there will be more stuff to use and different techniques. One day ammonyx might be a thing of the past and then it will be well guys dont use ammonyx thats old school. Your preaching to the choir. Start a new thread (What is a professional mix?)

Chris Tharpe
11-12-2010, 12:48 AM
depending on how big the tree is and the cost of repairs to theyard once its replaced, just get them a new tree or have it removed. If indeed the tree is dead and it falls on the house your still going to be held liabile by the home owner and at the very lease end up in court over this costing you much more than a tree would. Either have it cut down and stump ground out or replace the tree for them and move on. You are fighting a loosing battle

Russ Spence
11-12-2010, 09:07 AM
I use sodium hypochlorite and ammonyx LO, I was just stating the recipes used in the industry. I agree with you and I understand where you are coming from about being professional. Look at alot of the threads tons of people use dawn in there mix and thats what they used in the past before ammonyx LO or M. I agree with you about kitchen remedies. I use to use dawn long time ago as a surfactant like many others but as time went on i learned and use ammonyx. Maybe you should start a new thread about what should be used today. Then as time goes on there will be more stuff to use and different techniques. One day ammonyx might be a thing of the past and then it will be well guys dont use ammonyx thats old school. Your preaching to the choir. Start a new thread (What is a professional mix?)
Its not in anyones best intrest at this point to give anyone "recipes".

This is a serious matter within our industry and I for one am glad it is finally coming up.

Many of our property managers require the use of no chemical on their property that way the liability is somewhat removed from them. The dont want caustics and acids running all over the parking lot and left for unsuspecting customers to walk through the next day. Really its scary if you think about it, how many kids will jump in a small puddle to make a lil splash! Wow what if it had caustic in it?

As far as roofs, I feel like Henry has hit the nail on the head. I would look for a manufacturer of roof cleaning chems that will work and they will stand behind the product as well from a liability standpoint.

The end will come for the roof cleaners sooner than later. This is one area I for one will be more than happy to see regulated in the industry. There are far too many guys running around spraying bleach without reguard for the customer or their property that have no insurance and a 500 dollar investment without licensing or insurance tat will actually cover them or their customers.

I like Chris Tucker but the one thing I dont agree with was the way many were "certified". Originally all some had to do was post a certain amout of post in order to be certified as a "Master Roof Cleaner".

More will be revealed. Maybe you should ask Chris? If he certified you it falls back on him as well!

Chris Tucker
01-27-2011, 10:45 AM
Its not in anyones best intrest at this point to give anyone "recipes".

This is a serious matter within our industry and I for one am glad it is finally coming up.

Many of our property managers require the use of no chemical on their property that way the liability is somewhat removed from them. The dont want caustics and acids running all over the parking lot and left for unsuspecting customers to walk through the next day. Really its scary if you think about it, how many kids will jump in a small puddle to make a lil splash! Wow what if it had caustic in it?

As far as roofs, I feel like Henry has hit the nail on the head. I would look for a manufacturer of roof cleaning chems that will work and they will stand behind the product as well from a liability standpoint.

The end will come for the roof cleaners sooner than later. This is one area I for one will be more than happy to see regulated in the industry. There are far too many guys running around spraying bleach without reguard for the customer or their property that have no insurance and a 500 dollar investment without licensing or insurance tat will actually cover them or their customers.

I like Chris Tucker but the one thing I dont agree with was the way many were "certified". Originally all some had to do was post a certain amout of post in order to be certified as a "Master Roof Cleaner".

More will be revealed. Maybe you should ask Chris? If he certified you it falls back on him as well! This is NOT correct Russ, every person Certified by the RCIA so far had a MINIMUM 100 post requirement to even be considered for Roof Cleaning Certification. Some were "grandfathered in" that I had personal knowledge of their roof cleaning skills. No certification system is "perfect" Russ, and RCIA is constantly working and revising our standards. I have a friend who is an A/C Repair Guy. He worked for 12 bucks an hour, while his boss, and A/C CONTRACTOR made a killing! He was unable to pass the test, so he sent his wife ( a registered nurse) to contractors exam school. She Passed the Test, and is an A/C Contractor, though she knows nothing about A/C repair! The POINT of Certification is NOT if "the cleaning industry" buys it, or not. The so called "cleaning industry" and those who THINK they have "put themselves in charge of it" don't pay our bills. It is the customer who pays them.
My Dad is a master automotive mechanic who resisted NIASE, (now just ASE) certification, until he watched our customers leave for garages employing certified mechanics. Dad went and got ASE Certified. I know several ASE Certified Mechanics who can't change a spark plug, and many fine ASE Certified Mechanics as well. Most every garage in Tampa requires ASE Mechanic Certification for employment, because the customers like it. It is just like UAMCC membership Russ. There are many FINE UAMCC members. But there are plenty of NON UAMCC members who can pressure wash with the best of UAMCC members. But in a competitive situation, the UAMCC Member may get a job over the non UAMCC Member, simply because he has the awesome UAMCC Badge on his website. UAMCC Membership, RCIA Roof Cleaning Certification, IKECA Certification, they are all Bullets that help us win jobs in competitive situations.
None are "perfect", and they are never going to be.

Russ Spence
01-27-2011, 12:26 PM
your right Chris ........... FAR FROM PERFECT

Russ Spence
01-27-2011, 12:45 PM
The real deal is this, I personally feel it is not responsible to have people adding unstable chems to bleach, where you and I may know what is going on and understand, we forget the vast majority do not and to advise someone to add alcohol or whatever to cause adverse reactions is not responsible advise and someone that suggest it could and would be found libel in some states. I will say that in only my oponion I would not suggest that someone mix anything in or with bleach that is not stable to add to it.

Here is a similar situation (I know of a case where it happened in Birmingham Alabama and he is talking to a lawyer about his options) He read online about adding alcohol to his "roof mix", he bought it from a chem supplier and a salesperson for them informed me it was called "apple" something????? He could not remember the rest and I didnt help with any info either! The guy was hospitalized fromwhat I understand from the gasses coming from the mix.

What would happen if someone blew up something based on your adviseor like the abov died from toxic fumes from adding chems together that are not stabel? Who is liabel? Him? The chem supplier? You? The bbs he read it from?

I really wish you guys the best and I hope that you manage to get it done but the monster that was created is already growing, based on bad advise in the past some think they can almost build a business now from the garbage pile in someones yard (just add the pump) Remember the walmart shopping spree thread? That put a bunch of folks in business!

Chris Tucker
01-29-2011, 10:53 AM
Whenever you add Dawn or most other dish soaps to your mix, u are adding alcohol! We always suggest chlorine STABLE surfactants instead, unless you need the extra cleaning power of added alcohol. We suggest respirators. It looks like Ingram is going to turn Pro. Thank GOD !!!! He ran all over Florida. It was almost comical watching Urban Meyer and Saban during the big bowl game as announcers. You could SEE they do not like each other, LOL Florida has a new coach, perhaps he will not quit on his kids like Meyer did ?

Russ Spence
01-29-2011, 11:42 AM
Yeah I hate to see Ingram go, oh well?????? We have about 4 more just like him anyway, they are clones we just change the names on the jersey, also we have one kid from Orlando on the way, a 5 star running back and a team mate too also a 5 star.

I dont add Dawn but I agree on the chlorine stable surfactants, way to much liability there for my bank account!

Roll tide~

Chris Tucker
01-29-2011, 08:29 PM
Well, us Florida guys will be just as glad to see Ingram go as u Tide guys were to get rid of Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown (remember them) ? Here in Florida, we see many big condo and apartment roofs going to pressure washers vs chemical roof cleaners. Usually Painters low ball the roof cleaning to get the paint job, and they are not playing. They have big Meyers very high GPM pumps tapped into huge water tanks fed by fire hydrants. Most use cheap labor that speaks little English, and work alone, sun up till sun down. They use surface cleaners. I once talked to a painting contractor out of Miami that beat me out on a 40 building apartment complex. He admitted to barely breaking even on the tile roofs, but made a ton on the paint job. Of course, being a big time painting contractor, he has REAL Workers Comp too, covered to be up in the air. That BS Workers Comp chit don't fly down here in Florida. They will check your workers comp code down here on big commercial jobs, and you better be covered for what you propose to do.

Chris Tucker
01-29-2011, 08:33 PM
OMG Russ, I JUST noticed something about this forum! The signature links are NON FOLLOW :eek:
That means NO Link Juice is passed to the posters here. I have a Firefox plug in that tells me these kinds of things. Are you aware of this ?

Russ Spence
01-29-2011, 09:43 PM
no I wasnt but it does not surprise me?

Chris Tucker
01-29-2011, 10:13 PM
no I wasnt but it does not surprise me? Let me see if it does it here on the UAMCC Forum (http://www.uamcc.com)

Chris Tucker
01-29-2011, 10:49 PM
Here is what Matt Cutts of Google says about the subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQfOhncTXRU

Chris Tucker
01-30-2011, 11:03 AM
Yes, ALL the links, including the ones in the post body as well as the signatures are ALL NO FOLLOW. I don't know a whole lot about the UAMCC of Today. But one promise the old UAMCC made was to try and get their members work. We all know one way of getting work is to have promotional posts we make on these forums, or just plain conversational posts show up in the search results. Google will NOT Index NO FOLLOW Posts and Signatures. Unless this was Intentional (how could it be) it would be better to change this forum to a DO FOLLOW one ASAP.

Chris Tharpe
01-30-2011, 07:35 PM
check Fenner's posts and see if they Follow. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if they did follow and all others didn't

Chris Tucker
01-30-2011, 10:02 PM
check Fenner's posts and see if they Follow. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if they did follow and all others didn't I did check Chris, just did a search for Fenner, comes up PressurePros, his links are NO FOLLOW as well. This whole Forum is NO Follow, and it is a VBulletin Forum, same as TGS and PWI. Both TGS and PWI are DO Follow, so I would imagine that DO Follow is the default setting for VBulletin ? On RCIA, NO FOLLOW is the default setting, but I fixed that real quick. NO Follow is more for Forums where Spam is out of control with no Moderation. It seems to me most UAMCC forum people are veterans of the Internet, who will not allow stuff to get out of hand here, besides we have the Moderators.

Roger Gothorp
01-31-2011, 04:56 AM
check Fenner's posts and see if they Follow. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if they did follow and all others didn't

And reading attacks like this are why NO FOLLOW's are not always bad. What contribution have YOU ever made to the UAMCC Chris?

Tony Shelton
01-31-2011, 11:06 AM
I don't know, but I consider not bailing on the whole org a contribution.

Chris Tharpe
01-31-2011, 12:40 PM
And reading attacks like this are why NO FOLLOW's are not always bad. What contribution have YOU ever made to the UAMCC Chris?


I don't know, but I consider not bailing on the whole org a contribution.

Celeste, Money was and will be my only contribution. The time necessary to contribute with action is something I don't have.

Tony, with the RMH truth just coming out of the woodwork, after looking at the direction of the org at this time I am not so sure I shouldn't bail.

What have you benefited from this org to make you continue to be a part of it Celeste? I renewed my membership for one simple reason. There are good people in charge that I felt needed a chance to make things happen and turn this org around. As for Fenner, we all know the link issues and hacks in the BBs.

Roger Gothorp
01-31-2011, 01:16 PM
I want to apologize for my unprofessional remark. It was like the pot calling the kettle black which only reinforced the positive side of no-follow tags.

Frankly, I haven't realized one single benefit. I got a free membership then a "sales" renewal. There are a few people (not all) still left on the BOD that I believe in and will support for that reason only. Personally I think that this org is going to continue to struggle for a few years to come. There are not enough hours in the day for the few "doers" to do what needs to be done. I sincerely wish that everyone who keeps wanting something for their annual fee would recognize that and just bear with it - and not say unkind things in the meantime (myself included). I know I don't have any time to offer, who am I to expect the entire BOD to drop their lives & businesses to do it?

Sorry again for my remark.

Celeste

Guy Blackmon
01-31-2011, 01:39 PM
Easy Folks. Lets take it down a notch here.:)

Chris I addressed the RMH issue in the Members Only section. It was a Grossly Neglected issue that has been resolved. It wasn't left up there for any gain to the Org. I can only speculate that the "No Follow" was put in place back when "Nothing Was Positive On This Board", of course this is just a guess. We have not had a "Web Committee" since Celeste and Fenner to the best of my knowledge. David Vicars has volunteered to take care of the website. If any Member would like to volunteer to help David, I'm sure he could use it.

This Thread Has Gotten WAY Off Topic!

I would also like to say how much I & The UAMCC appreciate the Support of Members Like Chris Tharpe, Tony, and Celeste! Thank You!!!

Good To See You Back Tony!!!:)

David Vicars
01-31-2011, 02:05 PM
And to add to the web committee thing. David Vicars doesn't know his backspace from his cap lock.
I spent about 10 hours on the org site admin side last week, to try to get a feel for it.

Guy Blackmon
01-31-2011, 02:46 PM
Yea, but your "Head & Shoulders" above the rest of the "Monkey With A Stick" crowd. And the only one who said "Hey I'll Try"!!! Thanks David!!!

Michael Tessaro
01-31-2011, 10:16 PM
I want to apologize for my unprofessional remark. It was like the pot calling the kettle black which only reinforced the positive side of no-follow tags.

Frankly, I haven't realized one single benefit. I got a free membership then a "sales" renewal. There are a few people (not all) still left on the BOD that I believe in and will support for that reason only. Personally I think that this org is going to continue to struggle for a few years to come. There are not enough hours in the day for the few "doers" to do what needs to be done. I sincerely wish that everyone who keeps wanting something for their annual fee would recognize that and just bear with it - and not say unkind things in the meantime (myself included). I know I don't have any time to offer, who am I to expect the entire BOD to drop their lives & businesses to do it?

Sorry again for my remark.

Celeste

Celeste, Thanks for the props.

Damaris Sutton
08-12-2011, 06:10 PM
Why in the world would they come to the conclusion that pesticides were used to clean her roof because I know that even butter milk will kill weeds. We once drilled a hole in a palmetto bush and poured it in. Granted it took a couple months, but bammmm it died. I guess I need to keep my recipts incase one of us dies and blame it on the butter milk! lol

Point is everything can kill everything if not taken cafefully.