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Ken Fenner
01-27-2009, 09:13 PM
You've probably noticed: The Obama administration and Congress are talking about spending an unprecedented sum of money to try to revive the economy.
President Obama and House Democrats laid down the marker with an $825 billion package of spending and tax cuts.

Dozens of proposals. Hundreds of pages of legislation. Billions of dollars.
What are some of the headline proposals, and what is the debate all about?


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Read more here: http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/106490/Stimulus-101-What's-in-the-Bills

Terry Miller
01-28-2009, 08:06 AM
Ken,
Two words. More lies!

Scott Davis
01-28-2009, 08:41 AM
I wrote to my senators today protesting.

I also cast my vote at http://www.thepeopledecide.us/index.php. This site puts every bill out there and how your representatives voted. It also lets you vote and they send the votes to Washington.

Jeff LeCours
01-28-2009, 09:03 AM
The final package will be somewhat different I would suspect & hope. Can't blame this mess on Obama, it was handed to him and Ohhhh what a mess it is, no one can deny that. I hope & pray he can help dig us out of this mess of waste, corruption, greed and stupidity of the past years. Greed & Stupidity got us in this mess and it wasnt us and all the other average Americans. $1400 trash can for an office and 4 billion dollar bonuses as a company is failing WTF . My guys get bonuses when they do good for my company.

We need to look back and change things going forward. I have a feeling some will change but there will be others that find a way to keep it going until we have a 3 party system

Scott Davis
01-28-2009, 10:04 AM
The final package will be somewhat different I would suspect & hope. Can't blame this mess on Obama, it was handed to him and Ohhhh what a mess it is, no one can deny that. I hope & pray he can help dig us out of this mess of waste, corruption, greed and stupidity of the past years. Greed & Stupidity got us in this mess and it wasnt us and all the other average Americans. $1400 trash can for an office and 4 billion dollar bonuses as a company is failing WTF . My guys get bonuses when they do good for my company.

We need to look back and change things going forward. I have a feeling some will change but there will be others that find a way to keep it going until we have a 3 party system

It kills me you guys talk about greed and corruption. Let me make a list. Tim geithner. 200 million for contraceptives, 4.5 billion for "making military facilities more energy efficient,

You know what its not even worth it, Liberals are hypochrites. You talk about GW's administration and praise a $1.3 trillion in new spending inhis first 2 weeks!!! OMG George Bush spend 800 billion per year in Iraq!! Well, OMG Obamas done that in within his first month! On top of normal spending.

Nothing the government can do will "rescue" the economy. the only thing that you can do is let me keep and spend MY OWN MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!:steam:

And yes it was average americans. No matter how you look at it, nsomebody buying a $1400 trashcan did not make someone else buy more house than they can afford!! You guys have such a victim mentality. People need to look in the mirror, and there they will see the biggest problem.

Jeff LeCours
01-28-2009, 11:07 AM
[quote=scott d.;6771]It kills me you guys talk about greed and corruption. Let me make a list. Tim geithner. 200 million for contraceptives,
you say "you guys". What do you think every single democrat wants 200 million for contraceptives Ha Ha Ha Ha. why do you think its NOW out of the bill....DEMOCRATS COMPLAINED and its OUT but you dont care about telling the truth I guess.
W4.5 billion for "making military facilities more energy efficient,

You know what its not even worth it, Liberals are hypochrites. And so arent the Republicans you are blind if you cant see it, its not just the democrats as you say. HYPOCRITES ?? WHAT about all the Crap Republicans spent while in office, they spent and wasted more then ever in the history of this country, they even know and they know its why they lost the election. Did you forget all the waste of the past couple republican congresses? Or is it just our sides mentality to blame it on someone else
talk about GW's administration and praise a $1.3 trillion in new spending inhis first 2 weeks!!!Obama hasnt spent anything yet, what the heck are you talking about. It was Bush & Paulson that have spent billions that they just let the banks & investment companies have and spend anyway they want , AND YES one guy spent OUR money on a trash bin and $1.2 million more on his office OMG George Bush spend 800 billion per year in Iraq!! I will give you that, I don't think we ever should have gone into that horribly planned war Mission Accomplished OOPS GW said he regrets saying that. I regret that Republicans & Dems voted to let it happen Well, OMG Obamas done that in within his first month! What has he spent no bill has even passed, just the facts Scott On top of normal spending.

Nothing the government can do will "rescue" the economy. the only thing that you can do is let me keep and spend MY OWN MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!:steam:I want my own money too, but ALL this bailout started under Bush, AM I Wrong again?

And yes it was average americans. No matter how you look at it, nsomebody buying a $1400 trashcan did not make someone else buy more house than they can afford!! Did I ever say it was right for some ass to buy a house they couldnt afford, is that what every democrat says scott, is it every single one of us democrats that say that???? But if you cant see that Greed had taken over in some of the highest places in business you are blind brother You guys have such a victim mentality. Victim mentality Ha Ha Its your one way thinking always blaming Dems for what the Republicans policies help create and the lack of Dems fighting them, its your parties mentality of always being right even when you are wrong that helped cause a lot of whats going on right now People need to look in the mirror, YOU TOO need to look in the mirror if you want to blame this JUST on the Democrats. The fact is if you are blaming the Democrats and Obama who is in now for just a week or so, YOU ALSO have to blame the Republicans who where in the past 8 years. AM I NOT RIGHT???? You are blaming Obama less than two weeks in, but you let The republicans and Bush off the hook for the past 8 years UNREAL, hell even Bush admits he made some major mistakes
and there they will see the biggest problem.uote]

You know you Blame EVERYTHING on anybody other than Republicans, where I yes a democrat blame it on all the parties and I instead of following blindly like the republicans did for the past 8 years, I will speak out about the Dems when I think they are wrong. You know something Many MILLIONS of Dems will also speak out. We democrats arent like the Republicans that just crawled up GW's butt and followed him where ever he took the country. Greed and stupidity

Place blame where it belongs. Obamain for 2 weeks and you are blaming everything on him Just funny. THE HIGHEST SPENDING IN THE HISTORY was DURING THE PAST * YEARS, Yup thats Obamas fault :headshakesmile-fast


You generalize so much and blame it on all "us guys" I really cant even believe you mean it, but you write it
Have a NICE DAY

Scott Davis
01-28-2009, 11:47 AM
Trust me Jeff, I am no Bush sympathizer.

The 200 million is out because alot of people wanted it out. The point is that Obama read this bill, approved this bill and is trying to have a $1.3 trillion bill that will do NOTHING to help the economy or any individuals is my point. Bushes $150 Billion did nothing, and it was a waste of money. And this one will have the same result.

Please read my post again. The words republican and democrat were never mentioned. They are just parties. Liberals are the problem. That includes George Bush and a good portion of the republican party. The conservative platform does not spend like that. I am not a republican apologizer. I claim an ideology, not a party.

Your whole point about why republicans lost the election proves my point. They spent like crazy and put us in this crisis we're in. So what did we do as americans, we elected leaders over the last 2 elections that have the longest track record of spending mountains of money on essentially nothing. ($25 million for Sod on the naitonal mall?? I know it is out now, but why was it there to begin with?????)

Let me concede something. You are right. He has spent nothing yet. He is however screaming that republicans are playing politics because they are opposing the largest fluff bill in history. And now they want us to go another trillion in debt. Thats the change we were looking for all right.

Jeff, you and I have debated this a hundred times and it always ends up the same. The fact is though, that both repubs and dems are to blame. Where we differ drastically, is that I understand that the liberal platform of high taxes, high spending, socialized healthcare (to include federal funds for abortions), and government run industry, are the basic tenets of socialism, does not work. Large government does not work. It has never worked. period. There's not even a debate to be had on that point. If im wrong and you can show me a country that has worked under that system over the long haul, please do, and I will never speak of politics again.

True conservatives run on low taxes, small government, strong military, PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Tony Shelton
01-28-2009, 11:59 AM
I wrote to my senators today protesting.

I also cast my vote at http://www.thepeopledecide.us/index.php. This site puts every bill out there and how your representatives voted. It also lets you vote and they send the votes to Washington.


Scott, you're not going to believe this, but that site is owned by and was built by a friend and customer of mine.

His name is Mark. He started as a customer of my wife's and I delivered a registration to him and hit if off right away due to his politics.

That was over 7 years ago. He just got the site up and running fully last year.

Jeff LeCours
01-28-2009, 12:07 PM
Trust me Jeff, I am no Bush sympathizer.

The 200 million is out because alot of people wanted it out. The point is that Obama read this bill, approved this bill and is trying to have a $1.3 trillion bill that will do NOTHING to help the economy or any individuals is my point. Bushes $150 Billion did nothing, and it was a waste of money. And this one will have the same result.

Please read my post again. The words republican and democrat were never mentioned. They are just parties. Liberals are the problem. That includes George Bush and a good portion of the republican party. The conservative platform does not spend like that. I am not a republican apologizer. I claim an ideology, not a party.

Your whole point about why republicans lost the election proves my point. They spent like crazy and put us in this crisis we're in. So what did we do as americans, we elected leaders over the last 2 elections that have the longest track record of spending mountains of money on essentially nothing. ($25 million for Sod on the naitonal mall?? I know it is out now, but why was it there to begin with?????)

Let me concede something. You are right. He has spent nothing yet. He is however screaming that republicans are playing politics because they are opposing the largest fluff bill in history. And now they want us to go another trillion in debt. Thats the change we were looking for all right.

Jeff, you and I have debated this a hundred times and it always ends up the same. The fact is though, that both repubs and dems are to blame. Where we differ drastically, is that I understand that the liberal platform of high taxes, high spending, socialized healthcare (to include federal funds for abortions), and government run industry, are the basic tenets of socialism, does not work. Large government does not work. It has never worked. period. There's not even a debate to be had on that point. If im wrong and you can show me a country that has worked under that system over the long haul, please do, and I will never speak of politics again. I got you on this one. OUR COUNTRY THE USA HAS ALWAYS BEEN BIG GOV and even with our problems we have & will survive and continue to be great BIG GOV & ALL......So does this mean you arent talking politics anymore LOL

True conservatives run on low taxes, small government, strong military, PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

We have debated often, its just the generalization that sparked my little outburst. I am hearing so much that republicans are right and dems are wrong and already blaming Obama for everything it drives me a little wacko

I of course am no ultra conservative, I actuallly think very few are, reps or dems. The problem i have is conservatives say let biz be biz and I think and I know big biz has been a major player in the economic mess, so i yes do put a lot of blame on policies that let big biz create PART of this mess

I want you to know a good part of the reason the 200 million was out is because Democrats too want no more pork, no more waste. Many yes are liberal, doesnt make us blind & stupid

Its comment like "he is screaming" He isnt screaming he is actually going to the republicans and meeting with them, some may be lip service, but he is listening and getting ideas and comprimising on the final bill. He's meeting with them, this wasnt done the last 8 years, so I wil give him credit for making each and every little step torwards the center, where I think the majority of Americans are. Conserves will never like him, I understand their views, I just think you have to govern from the middle, thats why I voted for him

2009 is going to be a rough year, lots of people will lose their jobs I hope it just doesnt get much worse

I have sent several emails and its not complaining about republicans.

Ken Fenner
01-28-2009, 12:37 PM
The partisan crap is what kills our government. People get under their party umbrella and launch missiles at the other side. The reality is that there is a third entity that has killed this economy. The "ME" party. This party includes dems and republican EO's in the financial districts that bordered on criminal behavior. This includes the boneheads that signed for $400K mortgages making $30K per year. This includes the liberals that put this type of loan approval into place and the republicans who turned a blind eye towards it. This includes the writer of this post who looked at the artifical equity in his house and the return on bull markets and took an equity loan.

We're all a part of it. Now its time to pay the piper. If my business falls by 30% this year, oh well. I either hustle to replace it or I live more conservatively. If all my businesses fall by thirty percent, I make the neccessary changes to my lifestyle. Personal responsibility. The government is not invited to fix my personal finances.

I'm warming up to Obama if no other reason that he is our C-I-C. Spend hearty Mr Obama, it matters not what your humble taxpaying servant Ken Fenner believes is right. Just please, keep America safe and remain as the land of opportunity.

Scott Davis
01-28-2009, 12:37 PM
Scott, you're not going to believe this, but that site is owned by and was built by a friend and customer of mine.

His name is Mark. He started as a customer of my wife's and I delivered a registration to him and hit if off right away due to his politics.

That was over 7 years ago. He just got the site up and running fully last year.

I think you actually posted it on one of these boards and thats how I found it. I spend so much time on there it's stupid. My wife will call upstairs and be like "what are you doing" and im like "reading H.R. 2715!! This thing is such bull crap!!" Lol. I can actually hear her eyes rolling. :pukey:

Tell your friend he has created an ingenious website.

Jeff LeCours
01-28-2009, 12:48 PM
The partisan crap is what kills our government. People get under their party umbrella and launch missiles at the other side. The reality is that there is a third entity that has killed this economy. The "ME" party. This party includes dems and republican EO's in the financial districts that bordered on criminal behavior. This includes the boneheads that signed for $400K mortgages making $30K per year. This includes the liberals that put this type of loan approval into place and the republicans who turned a blind eye towards it. This includes the writer of this post who looked at the artifical equity in his house and the return on bull markets and took an equity loan.

We're all a part of it. Now its time to pay the piper. If my business falls by 30% this year, oh well. I either hustle to replace it or I live more conservatively. If all my businesses fall by thirty percent, I make the neccessary changes to my lifestyle. Personal responsibility. The government is not invited to fix my personal finances.

I'm warming up to Obama if no other reason that he is our C-I-C. Spend hearty Mr Obama, it matters not what your humble taxpaying servant Ken Fenner believes is right. Just please, keep America safe and remain as the land of opportunity.

You are right it is many many many who are to blame no exclusivity in the blame department

Tony Shelton
01-28-2009, 10:57 PM
. He's meeting with them, this wasnt done the last 8 years, so I wil give him credit for making each and every little step torwards the center, .

Jeff, I don't know how you can say that. He gave Kennedy open reigns on the education bill and all GW wanted was standardized testing out of the deal. Notice, no one in the NEA complained at all about approprations (Kennedy) but every one complained about accountability (Bush). He didn't have to do that. He could have just said "I won" just like Obama just did.

Tony Shelton
01-28-2009, 11:04 PM
You are right it is many many many who are to blame no exclusivity in the blame department


By the way, I blame you for all this Jeff. You are a white contractor!! Bad, Bad MAN!! :got-hooligan:

You take from the rich and give to rich corvette drivers!:got-hooligan:

You probably don't even care about global warming.:got-hooligan:

If you worked on a job by yourself do you know what that means Mr Jeff? That means you did a job with NO MINORITIES, NOT ONE! :got-hooligan:

I don't know about you, but I plan on smacking myself in the nads and smoking a Newport (even though I don't smoke) as my way of protesting my heritage! :saai:

Jump on board Jeff, change is here! :pukey:

(I just felt like saying something crazy! It's been a long day!)

Jeff LeCours
01-28-2009, 11:18 PM
By the way, I blame you for all this Jeff. You are a white contractor!! Bad, Bad MAN!! :got-hooligan:

You take from the rich and give to rich corvette drivers!:got-hooligan:

You probably don't even care about global warming.:got-hooligan:

If you worked on a job by yourself do you know what that means Mr Jeff? That means you did a job with NO MINORITIES, NOT ONE! :got-hooligan:

I don't know about you, but I plan on smacking myself in the nads and smoking a Newport (even though I don't smoke) as my way of protesting my heritage! :saai:

Jump on board Jeff, change is here! :pukey:

(I just felt like saying something crazy! It's been a long day!)

You alright there Tony? Just like a right winger you are Tony, taking everything I say out of context LOL:pukey:. Go relax dude have a good night :sleepey::sleepey::sleepey:

Scott Davis
01-29-2009, 12:03 AM
Jeff, I don't know how you can say that. He gave Kennedy open reigns on the education bill and all GW wanted was standardized testing out of the deal. Notice, no one in the NEA complained at all about approprations (Kennedy) but every one complained about accountability (Bush). He didn't have to do that. He could have just said "I won" just like Obama just did.

That is a great point. How arogant. Could you imagine Bush saying to a group of democrats "You guys need to stop watching keith olberman. I dont care what you say, I won." :redcard::yes:

Jeff LeCours
01-29-2009, 12:52 AM
That is a great point. How arogant. Could you imagine Bush saying to a group of democrats "You guys need to stop watching keith olberman. I dont care what you say, I won." :redcard::yes:

I agree, people should stop watching Oberman, he has gone off his rocker, total far left wing bore now

Tony Shelton
01-29-2009, 01:04 AM
You alright there Tony? Just like a right winger you are Tony, taking everything I say out of context LOL:pukey:. Go relax dude have a good night :sleepey::sleepey::sleepey:


Tired Bro.....long, long week so far. Thanks for thinking about me. :sleepey: