Customer claims the use of pesticides was used to clean her roof!

[Thad Eckhoff]

How many other people who do roofs now are thinking about (or already have) dropping them?

 

[cleantheroof]

Thanks for the replies back. I do carry a msds sheet with me and i use the same chemicals everyone else in the biz is using. Using love and ammonyx lo or i use dawn. I dont use borax or tsp. I mix right at the job site i dont carry anything mixed. Also I only carry enough for that specific job so that i am not over the limit from the DOT. Like i said it was in the middle of August very hot very humid no rain everything dead looking, the client agreed everything else looked bad even before i started the job didnt deny that. The client was just determined on that tree, when i went back to clean her windows from her hard water stains from my ground guy rinsing everything good the tree looked fine this was even a week after i did the job. As time went on still no rain, conditions of temp and humidity still bad, i took pics all over town down the street even went to landscape company 5 mins away all there trees and plants brown and dead looking from heat. A test was taken on needles came back inconclusive, tried to reason and talk no good. So the guy from pesticide division said, she called and said he has to be using pesticides. Thats the problem right there throwing claims like that ridiculous! Called ARMA they even said love, tsp, dawn, ammonyx not pesticides, I even called a chemist no not classified as pesticide. Point blank I tried to reason with someone who didnt want to reason and at worse making false claims. I agree there is alot of liability with cleaning roofs, thats why I am making people sign a form that states during the hot and dry conditions plants can slowly die off, love that we use can kill plants if............. you dont water,dont bag gutters, dont use tarps. I take precautions and everyone else i cleaned roofs for understood that and no problems. From here on out a form for roof cleaning is looked over and signed. I did talk to Chris about this in the past when it first happened and he also said it was ridiculous about the claims of pesticides.

 

[cleantheroof]

Russ you mentioned you dont like cleaning roofs because of the liability. From what i have read on the threads you do alot of flat work cleaning. Would you rather just do that and nothing else? From your experience I am curious. Thanks

 

[cleantheroof]

Scott, I was told its bad to even state that you KILL algae, or KILL bacteria. KILL is classified as pesticide terms, nuts I know but thats what i was told. So I had to take that off my site and put remove algae or algae free roofs. I was notified about 2 weeks after, if you read some of my posts youll see. Main problem is this - throwing out the use of pesticides point blank. KILL Algae= those are curse words LOL

 

[Russ Spence]

Russ you mentioned you dont like cleaning roofs because of the liability. From what i have read on the threads you do alot of flat work cleaning. Would you rather just do that and nothing else? From your experience I am curious. Thanks

Mark, at some point you have to decide what is best for you and your company, we looked back over the last 5 years and saw that 93% of our income was commercial and 5% was residential homes, drives ect, 2% was roof cleaning.

Roof cleaning cost us the most money from an insurance stand point, there was more liability with taking a chance on someone falling, damaged landscapes, lung damage to employees ect. So it just made since not to look into it any further for us. I do still have it advertised on our site but I will just hand it off to the local guy here that I am partners with if I get anymore calls.

Personally for me we do a ton of flatwork and building washes, that is where we are best and do a good job and do it quickly. So that is where our concentration is these days.

 

[Russ Spence]

Also as I stated previously the added liability of driving with that much chemical and taking the risk of something happening on the road. Kinda freaks me out!

 

[cleantheroof]

You do make alot of great points. I myself am slowly trying to get into more commercial work. I have read tons of threads and other imformation about flat work. Tomorrow I have an appointment with a restaurant manager that claims they never had it pressure washed, the sidewalks and dumpster area that is. Made a cold call and atleast he is taking the time to meet with me. I myself would rather get into more commercial work like yourself Russ because residental at times can be more mental work than anything.

 

[Henry Bockman]

Thanks for the replies back. I do carry a msds sheet with me and i use the same chemicals everyone else in the biz is using. Using love and ammonyx lo or i use dawn. I dont use borax or tsp. I mix right at the job site i dont carry anything mixed. Also I only carry enough for that specific job so that i am not over the limit from the DOT.

What manufacturer is covering the liability on your mix, and gave you the msds for your mixture? Sodium hypochlorite strength can change day to day so how accurate can the mix be on a daily basis? Did your supplier get in a new supply of SH? Maybe that changed the strength of you mix causing the plant issue?

There are way to many variables and liabilities out there and when people sue as easily thses days mixing your own chems can easily land you in court or living on the street.

I must have slept through this...

When did dawn or other dish washing soaps become professional grade cleaning products recognized by the pressure washing industry?

Why is something good for washing my dishes and GREAT for my hands, suddenly the top detergent for exterior cleaning?

Come on guys if your going to market yourselves as pros, sell yourself as pros, and charge pro rates, stop playing kitchen magician and acting like one of those weekend Pw guys working for beer money! Run a business and run it right!

This forum represents the Pw industry so these home made recipes should not be on here! All it does is promote guys to make up their own stuff illegally and irresponsibly in some cases and damage the industries respect.

 

[Jim Cooney]

10+ As always, Henry makes an excellent point.

What manufacturer is covering the liability on your mix, and gave you the msds for your mixture? Sodium hypochlorite strength can change day to day so how accurate can the mix be on a daily basis? Did your supplier get in a new supply of SH? Maybe that changed the strength of you mix causing the plant issue?

There are way to many variables and liabilities out there and when people sue as easily thses days mixing your own chems can easily land you in court or living on the street.

I must have slept through this...

When did dawn or other dish washing soaps become professional grade cleaning products recognized by the pressure washing industry?

Why is something good for washing my dishes and GREAT for my hands, suddenly the top detergent for exterior cleaning?

Come on guys if your going to market yourselves as pros, sell yourself as pros, and charge pro rates, stop playing kitchen magician and acting like one of those weekend Pw guys working for beer money! Run a business and run it right!

This forum represents the Pw industry so these home made recipes should not be on here! All it does is promote guys to make up their own stuff illegally and irresponsibly in some cases and damage the industries respect.

 

[cleantheroof]

I use sodium hypochlorite and ammonyx LO, I was just stating the recipes used in the industry. I agree with you and I understand where you are coming from about being professional. Look at alot of the threads tons of people use dawn in there mix and thats what they used in the past before ammonyx LO or M. I agree with you about kitchen remedies. I use to use dawn long time ago as a surfactant like many others but as time went on i learned and use ammonyx. Maybe you should start a new thread about what should be used today. Then as time goes on there will be more stuff to use and different techniques. One day ammonyx might be a thing of the past and then it will be well guys dont use ammonyx thats old school. Your preaching to the choir. Start a new thread (What is a professional mix?)

 

[Chris Tharpe]

depending on how big the tree is and the cost of repairs to theyard once its replaced, just get them a new tree or have it removed. If indeed the tree is dead and it falls on the house your still going to be held liabile by the home owner and at the very lease end up in court over this costing you much more than a tree would. Either have it cut down and stump ground out or replace the tree for them and move on. You are fighting a loosing battle

 

[Russ Spence]

I use sodium hypochlorite and ammonyx LO, I was just stating the recipes used in the industry. I agree with you and I understand where you are coming from about being professional. Look at alot of the threads tons of people use dawn in there mix and thats what they used in the past before ammonyx LO or M. I agree with you about kitchen remedies. I use to use dawn long time ago as a surfactant like many others but as time went on i learned and use ammonyx. Maybe you should start a new thread about what should be used today. Then as time goes on there will be more stuff to use and different techniques. One day ammonyx might be a thing of the past and then it will be well guys dont use ammonyx thats old school. Your preaching to the choir. Start a new thread (What is a professional mix?)

Its not in anyones best intrest at this point to give anyone "recipes".

This is a serious matter within our industry and I for one am glad it is finally coming up.

Many of our property managers require the use of no chemical on their property that way the liability is somewhat removed from them. The dont want caustics and acids running all over the parking lot and left for unsuspecting customers to walk through the next day. Really its scary if you think about it, how many kids will jump in a small puddle to make a lil splash! Wow what if it had caustic in it?

As far as roofs, I feel like Henry has hit the nail on the head. I would look for a manufacturer of roof cleaning chems that will work and they will stand behind the product as well from a liability standpoint.

The end will come for the roof cleaners sooner than later. This is one area I for one will be more than happy to see regulated in the industry. There are far too many guys running around spraying bleach without reguard for the customer or their property that have no insurance and a 500 dollar investment without licensing or insurance tat will actually cover them or their customers.

I like Chris Tucker but the one thing I dont agree with was the way many were "certified". Originally all some had to do was post a certain amout of post in order to be certified as a "Master Roof Cleaner".

More will be revealed. Maybe you should ask Chris? If he certified you it falls back on him as well!

 

[Chris Tucker]

Its not in anyones best intrest at this point to give anyone "recipes".

This is a serious matter within our industry and I for one am glad it is finally coming up.

Many of our property managers require the use of no chemical on their property that way the liability is somewhat removed from them. The dont want caustics and acids running all over the parking lot and left for unsuspecting customers to walk through the next day. Really its scary if you think about it, how many kids will jump in a small puddle to make a lil splash! Wow what if it had caustic in it?

As far as roofs, I feel like Henry has hit the nail on the head. I would look for a manufacturer of roof cleaning chems that will work and they will stand behind the product as well from a liability standpoint.

The end will come for the roof cleaners sooner than later. This is one area I for one will be more than happy to see regulated in the industry. There are far too many guys running around spraying bleach without reguard for the customer or their property that have no insurance and a 500 dollar investment without licensing or insurance tat will actually cover them or their customers.

I like Chris Tucker but the one thing I dont agree with was the way many were "certified". Originally all some had to do was post a certain amout of post in order to be certified as a "Master Roof Cleaner".

More will be revealed. Maybe you should ask Chris? If he certified you it falls back on him as well!

This is NOT correct Russ, every person Certified by the RCIA so far had a MINIMUM 100 post requirement to even be considered for Roof Cleaning Certification. Some were "grandfathered in" that I had personal knowledge of their roof cleaning skills. No certification system is "perfect" Russ, and RCIA is constantly working and revising our standards. I have a friend who is an A/C Repair Guy. He worked for 12 bucks an hour, while his boss, and A/C CONTRACTOR made a killing! He was unable to pass the test, so he sent his wife ( a registered nurse) to contractors exam school. She Passed the Test, and is an A/C Contractor, though she knows nothing about A/C repair! The POINT of Certification is NOT if "the cleaning industry" buys it, or not. The so called "cleaning industry" and those who THINK they have "put themselves in charge of it" don't pay our bills. It is the customer who pays them.
My Dad is a master automotive mechanic who resisted NIASE, (now just ASE) certification, until he watched our customers leave for garages employing certified mechanics. Dad went and got ASE Certified. I know several ASE Certified Mechanics who can't change a spark plug, and many fine ASE Certified Mechanics as well. Most every garage in Tampa requires ASE Mechanic Certification for employment, because the customers like it. It is just like UAMCC membership Russ. There are many FINE UAMCC members. But there are plenty of NON UAMCC members who can pressure wash with the best of UAMCC members. But in a competitive situation, the UAMCC Member may get a job over the non UAMCC Member, simply because he has the awesome UAMCC Badge on his website. UAMCC Membership, RCIA Roof Cleaning Certification, IKECA Certification, they are all Bullets that help us win jobs in competitive situations.
None are "perfect", and they are never going to be.

 

[Russ Spence]

your right Chris ........... FAR FROM PERFECT

 

[Russ Spence]

The real deal is this, I personally feel it is not responsible to have people adding unstable chems to bleach, where you and I may know what is going on and understand, we forget the vast majority do not and to advise someone to add alcohol or whatever to cause adverse reactions is not responsible advise and someone that suggest it could and would be found libel in some states. I will say that in only my oponion I would not suggest that someone mix anything in or with bleach that is not stable to add to it.

Here is a similar situation (I know of a case where it happened in Birmingham Alabama and he is talking to a lawyer about his options) He read online about adding alcohol to his "roof mix", he bought it from a chem supplier and a salesperson for them informed me it was called "apple" something????? He could not remember the rest and I didnt help with any info either! The guy was hospitalized fromwhat I understand from the gasses coming from the mix.

What would happen if someone blew up something based on your adviseor like the abov died from toxic fumes from adding chems together that are not stabel? Who is liabel? Him? The chem supplier? You? The bbs he read it from?

I really wish you guys the best and I hope that you manage to get it done but the monster that was created is already growing, based on bad advise in the past some think they can almost build a business now from the garbage pile in someones yard (just add the pump) Remember the walmart shopping spree thread? That put a bunch of folks in business!

 

[Chris Tucker]

Whenever you add Dawn or most other dish soaps to your mix, u are adding alcohol! We always suggest chlorine STABLE surfactants instead, unless you need the extra cleaning power of added alcohol. We suggest respirators. It looks like Ingram is going to turn Pro. Thank GOD !!!! He ran all over Florida. It was almost comical watching Urban Meyer and Saban during the big bowl game as announcers. You could SEE they do not like each other, LOL Florida has a new coach, perhaps he will not quit on his kids like Meyer did ?

 

[Russ Spence]

Yeah I hate to see Ingram go, oh well?????? We have about 4 more just like him anyway, they are clones we just change the names on the jersey, also we have one kid from Orlando on the way, a 5 star running back and a team mate too also a 5 star.

I dont add Dawn but I agree on the chlorine stable surfactants, way to much liability there for my bank account!

Roll tide~

 

[Chris Tucker]

Well, us Florida guys will be just as glad to see Ingram go as u Tide guys were to get rid of Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown (remember them) ? Here in Florida, we see many big condo and apartment roofs going to pressure washers vs chemical roof cleaners. Usually Painters low ball the roof cleaning to get the paint job, and they are not playing. They have big Meyers very high GPM pumps tapped into huge water tanks fed by fire hydrants. Most use cheap labor that speaks little English, and work alone, sun up till sun down. They use surface cleaners. I once talked to a painting contractor out of Miami that beat me out on a 40 building apartment complex. He admitted to barely breaking even on the tile roofs, but made a ton on the paint job. Of course, being a big time painting contractor, he has REAL Workers Comp too, covered to be up in the air. That BS Workers Comp chit don't fly down here in Florida. They will check your workers comp code down here on big commercial jobs, and you better be covered for what you propose to do.

 

[Chris Tucker]

OMG Russ, I JUST noticed something about this forum! The signature links are NON FOLLOW
That means NO Link Juice is passed to the posters here. I have a Firefox plug in that tells me these kinds of things. Are you aware of this ?

 

[Russ Spence]

no I wasnt but it does not surprise me?