Wash 225 decks

Just gave an estimate to wash 225 decks being subbed by another painter working for a condo association. Prep for a solid latex stain over a Thompson's plus Behr stain job. Basically a 'Blo 'n Go' type job. Glad I have nothing to do with the actual staining part.

Dan,
So you will be only washing them, not stripping and neutrilizing?
They are going to apply latex paint over existing stain?
Just trying to understand the post. If it is just washing, then you will not be responsible for the outcome of the paint being applied over the existing stain?
Sounds like it could be some good money with a high volume of work.
Cool. Hope it works out ok for ya. Curious as to why they do not want the full resto. Probably funds, huh?

So Dan, It's just Plain Washing ? Does the guy already have the job ?

Adrian said:

Dan,
So you will be only washing them, not stripping and neutrilizing?
They are going to apply latex paint over existing stain?
Just trying to understand the post. If it is just washing, then you will not be responsible for the outcome of the paint being applied over the existing stain?
Sounds like it could be some good money with a high volume of work.
Cool. Hope it works out ok for ya. Curious as to why they do not want the full resto. Probably funds, huh?

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These deck were built - then Thompsons water seal on new wood with who knows what prep. Then the following year it was coated with that Behr silicon stuff. I figure the only way to truly strip these decks is a Full HD-80 coating - and then downstream Scott's stripper on top, this ain't no 4 year old oil semi stain coat - this is full bore madness - the cost would be on average $500+ to fully strip and brighten these decks, at 225 decks that's a total of close to 130k. The total job, pressure washing, staining and materials was bid for a lot lot less. Certa pro was willing to do the whole job soup to nuts for like 70-80k! {translation: 50 cents a square foot!}

So since stripping/sanding is totally out - they are going with a solid stain over the semi-transparent mess. Again this is condo association style - I have no say in the matter - and don't really care either. The guy wants the decks washed and 'deglossed' to get the best adhesion possible. My square foot rates for doing this work is darn close to my vinyl washing rates - that's how low I am going. I have a few tricks as to how to go doing this. Ultimately they don't care about the appearance - just that there is a somewhat stable surface to recoat. And the guy has alerted them that it's going to be a yearly thing anyways.

Everglaze said:

So Dan, It's just Plain Washing ? Does the guy already have the job ?

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Yes he does. Basically just a hit 'em hard with chems to clean up exposed wood, mildew, algae - and etch the surface and wash off.

Dan we have a condo complex we hit with solid stain. The maintenance contracts are the shiznit. Does this guy already have a maintenance contract? It sounds like he is more interested in painting than washing. Sounds like a prime opportunity.

Note: I factor restaining floors every two years into the yearly maintenance contract.

PressurePros said:

Dan we have a condo complex we hit with solid stain. The maintenance contracts are the shiznit. Does this guy already have a maintenance contract? It sounds like he is more interested in painting than washing. Sounds like a prime opportunity.

Note: I factor restaining floors every two years into the yearly maintenance contract.

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He wants nothing to do with the washing part - he is a major player in BNI - and he is doing 10-15 estimates a day. He wants to specialize and subcontract. I think he has enough on his plate babysitting 3-4 guys on a painting crew. He also wants me to join his BNI group for p.w. and another one for painting. I don't know if I like the whole BNI principle - but in this economy - it seems BNI has all the lions share of leads these days. I am embarrassingly cheap on these deck washes - I am right there with 'Rosco' actually - but with a little help from friends {a.k.a Bob, Jarrod, Andy, et al} I think I have tackled how I can get these done efficiently. Heck - from one parking spot and one spigot hookup - you can do sometimes in upwards of 6 decks with one 150ft length of hose!

Throwing my ignorance out there for all to see, but what is BNI?

Adrian said:

Throwing my ignorance out there for all to see, but what is BNI?

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BNI is a referral/networking group. $300+ to join depending on your location. Every group is different. Some here have had lots of good referrals from their group and other groups are just plain lazy. They will usually let you go to the first few meetings for free so you can check them out. Its something worth looking into but do your homework before joining.

Dan, condo projects are easier with a little cold water unit 4 gallon or so machine. This is when all the decks are in the back and have no access for your trailer unit.

Dan,

Sounds like a good deal Dan! Decks are decent money if you don't have to stain them.

So what was your per deck price?

Jfife said:

Dan,

Sounds like a good deal Dan! Decks are decent money if you don't have to stain them.

So what was your per deck price?

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Take a guess and pm me.

Dan,
Actually there is not enough info to determine the cost for these decks. Can you post photos? Are they all the same?
I would have to look very seriously as to whether to bid on them, baseing it on the info you gave us. I see lots of future problems? Just my thoughts. Thank you.

tegrey said:

Dan,
Actually there is not enough info to determine the cost for these decks. Can you post photos? Are they all the same?
I would have to look very seriously as to whether to bid on them, baseing it on the info you gave us. I see lots of future problems? Just my thoughts. Thank you.

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Future problems? They're decks for crying out loud - decks are a yearly maintenance anyways! A deck that has already been stained and then gets pressure washed clean is a perfect substrate for applying a waterbourne latex solid stain product - a product which is self-priming to bare wood anyways. I've used the exact same product in my own business as the 'G.C.' is going to use - and honestly has held up much better than any oil based product I've ever used - and I've seen a trex deck painted with it - with perfect adhesion as well to my amazement last fall!

Dan,
We do a different type deck finish I believe. We don't do any Blo n Go on any substrate. Use any Bher product and our decks with solid stain are good for 4-5 years. We all pick our way to die and we like it nice and slow. We feel decks are not a hunk of wood to be abused and covered with whatever is cheap. Our main product is usually a Flood stain. We are a tester for the Flood company and realize the value of a living tree used for our relaxation. I don't discount your opinion and proceedures for deck refinishing. We all make the decisions we feel are correct. The future problems I was referring to was the problem you will have when the previous stain peels. Who will be responsible for the problem? The cleaner or stainer? Having so many decks would be great to have this time of year. I'd love to have the problem. I wish you the best of luck on your project. Thank you.

Terry - ultimately the person that accepts the job is responsible for the outcome of the work. If someone specs out that they want mildew/algae removed and prior finish 'etched' - then that's exactly what I will do. You only accept the responsibility for the actual work you do - the spec is the spec. If I say I will 'degloss' something and it remains glossy, then that's my bad. But if someone comes back and says the stain is lifting - how's that my problem? I have no control of what goes on.

How about if the guy applies a stucco plaster finish to the wood? How am I responsible for the results?

And ultimately why are you bringing in my 'opinions' and 'procedures' for deck refinishing?????? I am being asked to bid pressure washing clean several hundred decks - and I am given a spec for it - that's it. This isn't my personal business - I am not about to go charge into 'corporate' and start telling them they need to up their 'budget' of 100k to 300k for the 'proper' restoration procedures. This isn't my own little rinky dinky business we're talking about - where I sell perhaps a dozen homeowners a year the value of a truly restored deck. Would you go and try and sell the same value of interior painting to apartment building owners that you would to upscale residential homeowners?!???? There is an appropriate level of quality dependent upon the type of job you are on. I could equally argue with you the only truly quality way to restore a deck - is to take off each floorboard and run 'em through a planer on both sides and then throw them into vats of linseed oil for a month before tacking them back into place. But is anyone going to pay for that level of quality?

Dan, get a release signed before you do the job. The silicone in that Behr stain is difficult to remove out of the wood, as it is silicone, it is hard to get stuff to adhere to it.

I would get a release of liability so they don't come back on you for a peeling finish due to an improper prep. I understand that you are doing the work as contracted, BUT as a professional it is an expectation that we do not willingly and knowingly do substandard work without advising the client of said issues in writing and getting acknowledgement from the client in the form of a release. They are paying for our water and our expertise. I would get the release from the contractor you are subbing from, not from the condo association.

Good luck and happy washing!

Mathew Johnson said:

Dan, get a release signed before you do the job. The silicone in that Behr stain is difficult to remove out of the wood, as it is silicone, it is hard to het stuff to adhere to it.

I would get a release of liability so they don't come back on you for a peeling finish due to an improper prep.

Good luck and happy washing!

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Mathew - I already alerted the guy to that silicone problem and possible adhesion problems. And told him I was a little worried about if the prep was adequate. So I told him I would 'prep' one whole deck for evaluation purposes - and ultimately he had to sign off on it if he wanted the work done. I think a full HD-80 + Scott's special downstream stripper and brighten would probably cost more than his entire budget alone.

But put in perspective - show me one deck that is painted with all the correct prep that doesn't peel - and I have a bridge I can sell you.

I do want this job - I know I can do it 10x more efficiently than my competition.

plainpainter said:

Mathew - I already alerted the guy to that silicone problem and possible adhesion problems. And told him I was a little worried about if the prep was adequate. So I told him I would 'prep' one whole deck for evaluation purposes - and ultimately he had to sign off on it if he wanted the work done. I think a full HD-80 + Scott's special downstream stripper and brighten would probably cost more than his entire budget alone.

But put in perspective - show me one deck that is painted with all the correct prep that doesn't peel - and I have a bridge I can sell you.

I do want this job - I know I can do it 10x more efficiently than my competition.

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I am not saying to pass on the job. A simple piece of paper from you contractor will cover your a$$ and give you a piece of mind. All it will take is one unhappy resident and they will go after the contractor. He will throw you under the bus so quick and you could find yourself in court trying to defend your prep. For every wood specialist you March into court to testify that decks require annual maintenance, the prosecuting attorney for the homeowners will march in 30 contractors / wood specialist to testify otherwise.

Get your release, do the job, and cash your check!!!

Happy Washing!

I agree with Matthew about the release and wording of your contract. Even if you do perfect prep but this guy gets in and stains the deck when the moisture content is too high it will somehow be your fault.