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Thread: Pennofin woes

  1. #11

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    Quote Originally Posted by plainpainter View Post
    IF the failure is significantly less than a year - who cares? These are hardwoods after all - you have to redo them all the time anyways. I think this is only matters for softer woods - where a good quality stain can go 2 years and then only need to be topcoated.
    Daniel,

    Decent stains on any wood should not require expensive stripping after 10 months of service.

    Decent stains do not turn black on ipe'. Decent stains on mahogany, not just vertical, but also horizontal mahogany, last substantially more than 1 year. Mahogany is a hardwood. So is balsa wood.
    - Rick Petry
    Windsor WoodCare
    (609) 799-6093 office, (609) 468-7965 cell
    Central NJ deck restoration services
    Windsor WoodCare email

  • #12

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Petry View Post
    Daniel,

    Decent stains on any wood should not require expensive stripping after 10 months of service.

    Decent stains do not turn black on ipe'. Decent stains on mahogany, not just vertical, but also horizontal mahogany, last substantially more than 1 year. Mahogany is a hardwood. So is balsa wood.
    Rick - firstly this is kind of judgmental - what I say requires stripping and what you do are two separate things. And not to mention you use a product that doesn't require Sodium hydroxide to remove it - the products I use contain alkyd modified linseed oils and/or tung oils - they don't simply go away with a light bleach cleaning - and you can't blend in 2 yr. old stain with a new application like you can with parafinnic oils

    But we all have our own business models. With my limited experience using parafinnics - they just aren't acceptable. Folks want a stain that looks as good a year later after application. I use a parafinnic oil on my deck - I like the ease of maintenance. But I also don't have to schedule myself in every spring and pay myself money to do it. I don't know your customers - but I've been contacting customers from two years ago - and their attitudes are that I was just at their home last year - they can't believe 2 years has passed already. My model has to be a stain that will pretty much stay intact and at year #3 be stripped and start all over again.
    Daniel Tambasco
    Just Plain Painting
    Gutter Cleaning MA
    Deck Restoration Contractor
    978-749-9808

  • #13

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    Dan, with your limited experience and lack of work evidence on hard wood its hard to read and except any advice you preach.
    Diamond Jim's LLC
    Wood & Stone Restoration
    Pressure Cleaning
    Waterbury CT

    James Foley

  • #14

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    I dont think their marketing is doing the job. Penofin is a misunderstood product. I am a finish nerd and its all I use on decks that are not receiving a solid or semi solid stain.

    Here's the problem: people think of Penofin and historically they think of the old original blue label can. Most people dont even realize how many different penetrating oil products that Penofin has that are designed for specific applications: hardwood, marine, pt, composite to name a few. As a result, many people arent using the right flavor for the situation, and as with anything, the better grades are rather pricy.

    The only ones I use are the ultra premium red label and the hardwood formula. The KEY to this product is to get one of the tinted transparents. They use transoxide pigments which are far superior excellent for uv protection and they have enhanced mildewcides in the formula.

    Also, they only advise that the product will last for 1-2 years depending on exposure and traffic. I don't think its reasonable to expect more than that from a penetrating oil on decks or any horizontal.
    _____________

    Scott Burt
    Topcoat Finishes, Inc.

  • #15

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    Nothing lasts on decks - but parafinnics look drab from day one - and just look tired after 4-5 months. I did a cedar deck with pressure treated balusters last september with woodtux wet. For some reason it had no black - but I did give it a maintenance wash because of leaf stains - and touched up a few spots - because the cedar doesn't seem to accept stain as well as pressure treated - but other than that the deck looked as good as the day I did it.

    When woodtux didn't go black - it really had great staying power and looked crisp - parafinnics never look crisp. Heck a pressure treated deck I did two years ago, other than being dark looks absolutely perfect with absolutely no wear on a deck that sees perhaps the highest traffic/abuse of any deck I have ever serviced.

    My decks don't have to last forever, they don't have to last 3 full years - but they have to go through 3 winters before my customers feel they got their moneys worth. A quality curing stain can do this on pressure treated easy and perhaps even be 'maintained' and a hardwood will need to be stripped.

    the only product and contractor that has yielded a result that would be totally acceptable with my clients is Scott with his TWP 200 series parafinnic. But it has provisos - not meant for decking - if you use for decking there is a 2 week period you have to monitor - only use in direct sun decks - and only for softwoods.
    Daniel Tambasco
    Just Plain Painting
    Gutter Cleaning MA
    Deck Restoration Contractor
    978-749-9808

  • #16

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    I must have misread, I thought the thread was about Penofin, not parafinn.
    _____________

    Scott Burt
    Topcoat Finishes, Inc.

  • #17

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    Quote Originally Posted by topcoat View Post
    I must have misread, I thought the thread was about Penofin, not parafinn.
    you read correctly - but all woodie threads degenerate into the parafinnic vs. curing oil debate. My observation was so what if Penofin went black on a hardwood deck after a year - it's got to be redone anyways at that point anyways - and the 'mineral' oil guys start yacking about quality stains lasting 2+ years and blah blah blah. It's just a long winded diatribe - and none of it makes sense to me.
    Daniel Tambasco
    Just Plain Painting
    Gutter Cleaning MA
    Deck Restoration Contractor
    978-749-9808

  • #18

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    I hadn't noticed that pattern, but I am sure you are correct. Although it seems your logic is based on a hypothetical postulate.
    _____________

    Scott Burt
    Topcoat Finishes, Inc.

  • #19

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    From the Penofin website under the FAQs copied and pasted...

    How long will the wood stain last on my deck/house?
    On a horizontal surface, Penofin may be expected to perform for an average of 9-18 months and 3-5 years on a vertical surface. The time will vary depending on the percentage of sunlight, weather, etc...


    From what I've seen, and I'll specify the exact product as the Hardwood Formula, Penofin with Brazilian Rosewood oil + sunlight = black splotchy wood that has to be stripped whether you are reapplying penofin or something else. I'd just like more input from those with experience in expaining this phenomenon to customers when they wonder why the wood has turned black.
    Alan Broom
    ShineBrite LLC
    Alabama

  • #20

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    Alan,

    The black splotchy phenomenon might be due to ineffective mildewcides/fungicides in the stain.

    Another possibility. Went to the Penofin website and the hardwood formula page. At the bottom, is the following:

    Maintenance
    A maintenance coat of Hardwood Finish should be applied within 3-6 months after the initial application or as soon as oil looks depleted. The next maintenance coat should be done again in approximately 10-12 months or whenever oil looks depleted. Over time, the wood fibers become fully protected and the maintenance will become less frequent.


    In Penofin's own words, hardwoods should be cleaned and stained three separate times in the first year!

    How many consumers or contractors are following that costly and rigorous schedule?
    Last edited by Rick Petry; 06-06-2009 at 06:08 AM. Reason: bad writing
    - Rick Petry
    Windsor WoodCare
    (609) 799-6093 office, (609) 468-7965 cell
    Central NJ deck restoration services
    Windsor WoodCare email

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