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Thread: Pennofin woes

  1. #1

    Default Pennofin woes

    We have specialty lumber companies here in the south east that are selling pennofin for maintaining exterior exotics and cedar. I have been working for an owner of one of these companies for the past four years now and he has had me strip and reapply pennofin to his spanish cedar (yes, spanish cedar) and cumaru decks. I finally convined him to go with an alternative and have explained as best as possible about the pennofin oils turning black in the sun. Now I have another customer with the same issues on a very large cumaru deck. Why are these lumber importers still selling this? No doubt, the finish is beautiful for a short while. It has a sheen like interior floors and the color it brings out on exotics is great. However, it turns black and the only option is heavy strip. Does anyone know of a place online or other to send customers to educate them on the problem?? I have convinced my few, but would certainly like some back up.
    Alan Broom
    ShineBrite LLC
    Alabama

  • #2

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    Hey educate the customer about it - in the end if they want it - what's the worst could happen? You end up stripping and reapplying it more often for more money. As long as you warned them, that's all you need to do to sleep at night.
    Daniel Tambasco
    Just Plain Painting
    Gutter Cleaning MA
    Deck Restoration Contractor
    978-749-9808

  • #3

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    Alan,

    We are seeing a bit more Penofin here in NJ. Finished stripping and brightening one yesterday. Attached is a pic of part of the job before we started work.

    Ipe' floor and fascia, with red mahogany spindles, top rail, porch framing, and cladded posts. Clear cedar pergola.

    Stained 10 months ago with Penofin. Pergola done with a Sherwin Williams solid stain. The ipe' was nearly black, with the vertical mahogany very splotchy, stain in some areas, nearly gone in others. Good news is that Penofin is able to be stripped from hardwoods without much problem. The ugly solid on the cedar pergola is another story.

    I think experience educated this customer. They spent a lot of money, only to call us less than a year later for a complete makeover.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Rick Petry; 06-05-2009 at 08:58 AM. Reason: wrong name
    - Rick Petry
    Windsor WoodCare
    (609) 799-6093 office, (609) 468-7965 cell
    Central NJ deck restoration services
    Windsor WoodCare email

  • #4

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    PennOPain has quite a good Marketing campaign geared to lumber companies and high end markets. If you give it a Bleach bath for Maintenance it looks pretty good. It is terrible on cedar and it is usually over applied on the first application and becomes more of a food source for mold.
    Diamond Jim's LLC
    Wood & Stone Restoration
    Pressure Cleaning
    Waterbury CT

    James Foley

  • #5

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    Quote Originally Posted by ShineBrite LLC View Post
    ... However, it turns black and the only option is heavy strip. Does anyone know of a place online or other to send customers to educate them on the problem?? I have convinced my few, but would certainly like some back up.
    Alan,

    Another thought. How about showing your potential customers pictures of failed Penofin on hardwoods? They say a picture is worth a thousand words!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    - Rick Petry
    Windsor WoodCare
    (609) 799-6093 office, (609) 468-7965 cell
    Central NJ deck restoration services
    Windsor WoodCare email

  • #6

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    Penofin is a weird stain. I either see it black and totally infested with mold (90% of the time) or it holds up beautifully. I went to an ipe deck estimate earlier this year and the deck actually just looked like it needed a clean and maybe a floor recoat. The homeonwer told me it was two years old. The oddest part was that he had had a handyman applying it and the guy never cleaned the deck, just slopped it on with the brush. Handyman cost: $250. I shook hands with the guy and didn't even bother measuring. Just eyeballing it we were going to be over $1500.
    Ken Fenner
    PressurePros, Inc
    House Washing
    Pressure Washing Companies




  • #7

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    Quote Originally Posted by PressurePros View Post
    Penofin is a weird stain. I either see it black and totally infested with mold (90% of the time) or it holds up beautifully. I went to an ipe deck estimate earlier this year and the deck actually just looked like it needed a clean and maybe a floor recoat. The homeonwer told me it was two years old. The oddest part was that he had had a handyman applying it and the guy never cleaned the deck, just slopped it on with the brush. Handyman cost: $250. I shook hands with the guy and didn't even bother measuring. Just eyeballing it we were going to be over $1500.
    Was this a 'not-even-bother' moment? Or did you hand the guy an estimate.
    Daniel Tambasco
    Just Plain Painting
    Gutter Cleaning MA
    Deck Restoration Contractor
    978-749-9808

  • #8

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    He told me the guy was an electrician/plumber/handyman and just couldn't get to mit this year. Then he told me what he was paying. I asked him if he was happy with what the guy had been doing. The answer was yes. I then told him that I couldn't touch his deck for less than five times what he had been paying. He grimaced and said he would go double or triple based on the technique I had discussed with him over the phone but that was the upper limit. My tape measure never left my belt. Mr. Patel had no idea what a real company costs to operate. I shook his hand and went to the next estimate.
    Ken Fenner
    PressurePros, Inc
    House Washing
    Pressure Washing Companies




  • #9

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    electrician/plumber/handyman, eh? I guess that's diversification for ya - but the electricians and plumbers I know are always balls to the walls - and in the rare chance they don't have work - they're not going to change gear and suddenly do handyman work. I can understand the non-essential trades like painting, washing, landscaping - needing to branch out in order to guarantee work.

    On another note - my mom was talking to her sister in france - and she was talking about all the other quotes customers are getting, and my aunt didn't understand - she was baffled that folks keep getting different quotes. And she was like - you ask ten different painters for their hourly rates - they'll all be the same within a couple of bucks. Other than the fact you just can't call yourself a painter in France and other European countries - you need to pass exams, internship, licensing - other than that it's still free economy - you are not mandates by government what you can and can't charge - but they all charge the same rates.
    Daniel Tambasco
    Just Plain Painting
    Gutter Cleaning MA
    Deck Restoration Contractor
    978-749-9808

  • #10

    Default Re: Pennofin woes

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Petry View Post
    Alan,

    Another thought. How about showing your potential customers pictures of failed Penofin on hardwoods? They say a picture is worth a thousand words!
    IF the failure is significantly less than a year - who cares? These are hardwoods after all - you have to redo them all the time anyways. I think this is only matters for softer woods - where a good quality stain can go 2 years and then only need to be topcoated.
    Daniel Tambasco
    Just Plain Painting
    Gutter Cleaning MA
    Deck Restoration Contractor
    978-749-9808

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