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Thread: Should Filters be tested to set universal standards ?

  1. #1

    Default Should Filters be tested to set universal standards ?

    In 1992 ish, I built my filtration unit at a cost of $72,000 and some change. Back then, no one could tell me if this filter wash going to comply with the requirements for discharge. We built it and rolled the dice and it paid off.

    Today, we see many manufactures saying that their filter is the most advanced, best built and most cost effective, but what are they really saying?

    The purpose of a filter is to take particles out of the flow ( "Flow" meaning water in most cases ) and suspend them. Allowing clean water to flow out from the unit.

    This is where it gets tricky....

    Recently I was bidding on a parking garage. A competitor had their own filter as well. My filter was 24 ft long with a capacity of filtering about 40 GPM and suspending particles of up to 50-100 gallons before a clean out would be necessary. My competitors on the other hand, Had several under the counter gallon size filters. We both had an active carbon filter, we both had a cartridge filter, in fact they were almost 65% the same elements of filtration, however his capacity was about 2 gallons. When we brought this issue up, he replied that he was going to empty the units on the job and/ or replace the cartridges when clogged. This would of been a very long and time consuming endeavor.

    My point here is that his units had the similar spec's as mine when 10 gallons of water went through them. However, his was for a restaurant use and NOT for garage cleaning.

    When shopping for a filtration unit, one must think of the application one is using the filter for. The bigger the area, the bigger the filter is needed. In fact, our filter which is about 17 years old now, is a bit too small for our other equipment. The fact of the matter is, our filter, when in combination with our pressure washer units, coinciding with a fire hose rinsing, cannot keep up. A filtration unit of 80-100 gallons per minute is going to be required in the near future. The cost currently will be over $135,000.

    What I am trying to say here is this, " If you are going to clean a drive thru and nothing but a drive thru, then you can get away with a 2 to 5k system in general. If you were to do several large gas pads or a few shopping centers, then a 20 to 40+ k unit may be needed. Parking garages... the sky is the limit.

    Don't be fooled by someone saying that these are the specs so therefore this unit will do the job. As you filter, your unit will pick up particles out from the flow. The filter is designed to get clogged in time. If your filtration elements are small or limited, your flow rate will decrease quickly thus slowing your cleaning abilities. ( No filtration, no pressure washing) You will need to "Dump" that class II Hazardous waste at some point. If you are on the job, you would have to stop when full, and go to an approved depot to dump it. Time is money and this WILL take allot of time, perhaps most of the day.

    The bigger filters allow you to clean a much larger area or much more smaller areas, without this worry being clogged.... the need to dump the waste at a depot that maybe 20 to 40 miles from your work area. Time that is wasted.


    Thats my 2 cents !


    .
    Last edited by Jim@GarageCleaning; 07-02-2009 at 05:30 PM.

  • #2

    Default Re: Should Filters be tested to set universal standards ?

    Should Filters be tested to set universal standards ?
    If your going to wite or have a BMP of course they should. So Should regulations about transport of hazordous waste.

    Good luck, your going to have to get filter manufactures involed to help the process with goverment.

  • #3

    Default Re: Should Filters be tested to set universal standards ?

    My concern without getting too far into this, was the filters should be standardize for the job they are qualified to do. I understand Ron that you do not use you reclamation unit on your standard jobs, though you do have one. My point here was "Should a manufacture say that my 8 oz filter cartridge is good for Parking Garage cleaning or should that industry say No this is stamped ( Standardized ) for cleaning only small size jobs such as a single oil spot.

    You know Ron, we can get very technical on the laws as we have done in the past. ( California VS Arizona ) At the end, you may or may not agree with what was said or what the laws are here in California. The fact is that I believe that the industries manufactures should inform their customers that there filters have limitations, some more than others. Since 1992, some parts of California has made it a requirement to have a filtration unit while pressure washing... some 17+ years now. I am sure Arizona required filtration back in 1992 as well.

    As you know Ron, we are going on our 21st year in the Garage Cleaning Business and have been required, by Law, to have a filtration unit since 1992 that was independently LAB tested. A cost of over $2,000 after we built the filtration unit. This testing goes on even now, about every few years, we must comply and test our filtration units at our own expense if so asked by the local authorities.

    By the way, thank you for your input over here at UAMCC. If you've noticed, I am still helping contractors over at PWI because I believe in PWI, however I will be posting here until we clear up some issues.

  • #4

    Default Re: Should Filters be tested to set universal standards ?

    Jim, great information.

    Let me make sure I am understanding your viewpoint. You believe there should be filtration standards set based upon efficiency. Lets say you and I compete for the same job and I have Setup B that you described above. Are you saying I should be eliminated from the bid process because of substandard equipment? The way i read your post, we could both get the job done. You would be there for eight hours. I would be there for three days. I would think a guy in your shoes would love that?
    Ken Fenner
    PressurePros, Inc
    House Washing
    Pressure Washing Companies




  • #5

    Default Re: Should Filters be tested to set universal standards ?

    Quote Originally Posted by PressurePros View Post
    Jim, great information.

    Let me make sure I am understanding your viewpoint. You believe there should be filtration standards set based upon efficiency. Lets say you and I compete for the same job and I have Setup B that you described above. Are you saying I should be eliminated from the bid process because of substandard equipment? The way i read your post, we could both get the job done. You would be there for eight hours. I would be there for three days. I would think a guy in your shoes would love that?

    EPA terms it would be calibration.....

  • #6

    Default Re: Should Filters be tested to set universal standards ?

    Ron, could setup B do the job? Would it just be slower or is there more to it than that?
    Ken Fenner
    PressurePros, Inc
    House Washing
    Pressure Washing Companies




  • #7

    Default Re: Should Filters be tested to set universal standards ?

    Quote Originally Posted by PressurePros View Post
    Ron, could setup B do the job? Would it just be slower or is there more to it than that?
    I think if the standard is set how its achieved doesnt matter. So YES

    We have alot of guys here Scaring people. I have been called into meetings with customers showing them they are comply with all the laws and regulations.

  • #8

    Default Re: Should Filters be tested to set universal standards ?

    Maybe a distributor could chime in and give their perspective on this?
    [B]Carlos Gonzales[/B]
    [B]New Look Power Wash
    [URL="http://www.newlookpowerwash.com"]Pressure Wash in California[/URL][/B]
    [URL="http://www.newlookpowerwash.com/category/uncategorized"][B]California Pressure Washing Blog[/B][/URL]
    [B][URL="http://www.newlookpowerwash.com/california-pressure-wash-blog/pressure-wash-services-in-san-francisco.html"]Pressure Wash Services in San Francisco[/URL][/B]

  • #9

    Default Re: Should Filters be tested to set universal standards ?

    Just my $.02 here.

    Jim basically what you are saying it you want to set the standard to your rig so you can eliminate the competition.Right?
    Karvonen's Pro Clean
    Southwest Georgia's Pressure Washing & Low Pressure Roof Cleaning Professionals
    Scott "Squirtgun" Karvonen
    www.georgiaproclean.com

    Southwest Georgia's Pressure washing and No pressure roof cleaning professionals

  • #10

    Default Re: Should Filters be tested to set universal standards ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Musgraves View Post
    I think if the standard is set how its achieved doesnt matter.
    I agree with this statement, however, if you have a filter that is clearly unable to remove the particles from the water and in the volume that is required, you are inviting mischief.



    For example:


    I am a contractor. I bid the contract for $25,000. ALWAYS IN MY EXPERIENCES of 20 years, the garage needs to be finished by X time, usually in 2 to 5 days. Because of my limited capacity of the filter, I overload it and the filter over flows or stops working and the cleaning water, which sometimes takes as much as 20 OR MORE minutes to reach from the cleaning area to the lower levels where the filter is, starts to back up. We are talking hundreds if not thousands of gallons of class II hazardous waste.

    Basically I am over my head and beyond the capacity of the filter in question. My filter cartridges are wasted and cannot be readily fixed without buying replacements. It is the weekend at 1:00 AM and my local dealer will not be open till Monday for replacement parts and the necessary back flush and I have a deadline.

    This has happened so many times. I see contractors in trouble over their heads. The companies come and go.

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