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how?

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cleanhoods

New member
I was wanting to know how do you expand? I need suggestions on how to grow my business. I really am stumped on how to pay a person or persons and how to keep how i clean with the business. I dont want to waste my time on teaching someone and then they go on there own, but the main thing is pay how do you pay by percent,hourly? I have been cleaning on my own no help since 1997 and coming to these sites it has encouraged me to grow my business and expand.It looks more profitable i think? Any help would helpfull. I have a good prospect i talked to yesterday and another i am working on just dont know how to pay and orginize.Now the one i am working on has equiptment and the one i talked with yesterday does not,but both are green on this end of the business.
Thank you all from Marko
 

Ken Fenner

Active member
Marko, even more important than growth is accepting the fact that we do not live forever, nor do we get any younger. Its a wise idea to setup your business so that if anything were to happen to you, the business could go on.

I started in pressure washing doing kitchen exhaust cleaning so I do know what is involved. I always had two guys on the jobsite. From a safety standpoint I think that is the way to go, but I know many of you kitchen exhaust guys go out alone. If I were sending out a guy by himself I would probably pay in the range of $18 per hour. Keep in mind that you have to pay matching taxes and workmens comp on your employees so that $18/hr actually costs you closer to the range of $27 per hour.

The best thing you can do to prevent training a guy and have him start his own business is to have him sign a non-compete clause (NCC). They are difficult to enforce, but they can sway most guys. The key factor is to be sure and pay your guy(s) enough so that they don't don't migrate to getting into business for themselves.

Another alternative is to pay by percentage. This is good because it motivates the guy to work harder. 25%-40% is a fair percentage for one guy. (that's the usual percentage for labor as reflected on gross dollars)
 

cleanhoods

New member
Marko, even more important than growth is accepting the fact that we do not live forever, nor do we get any younger. Its a wise idea to setup your business so that if anything were to happen to you, the business could go on.

I started in pressure washing doing kitchen exhaust cleaning so I do know what is involved. I always had two guys on the jobsite. From a safety standpoint I think that is the way to go, but I know many of you kitchen exhaust guys go out alone. If I were sending out a guy by himself I would probably pay in the range of $18 per hour. Keep in mind that you have to pay matching taxes and workmens comp on your employees so that $18/hr actually costs you closer to the range of $27 per hour.

The best thing you can do to prevent training a guy and have him start his own business is to have him sign a non-compete clause (NCC). They are difficult to enforce, but they can sway most guys. The key factor is to be sure and pay your guy(s) enough so that they don't don't migrate to getting into business for themselves.

Another alternative is to pay by percentage. This is good because it motivates the guy to work harder. 25%-40% is a fair percentage for one guy. (that's the usual percentage for labor as reflected on gross dollars)

The percentage is what i kinda offered and told him i would let him know when i figure it out.At first as a ride along and training i offered 20% then it would go up so much as he grows.Max i was thinking is 40% with tools of mine or 60% if he provides his own.What do you think?
Thank you very much you kinda got me in the right road.And yes i am getting older and older.My wife isnt to fond of the hiring thing.She sees it as us giving money away and i handled this myself since 1997 i can do just fine to continue.Man alone is ruff and i can only imagine 10 years from now when i am 45 then 10 from then when i am 55 how am i going to do it?I want time with my children(6 children) and my wife but dang she is a pain lol.I just see this line of work able to grow to a organized business with mass profits just have to get the right people and information.He is going to go tonight with me as a ride along just to see if he really would like to be a KEC or not.He and i are coaches together for the children in th ecommunity nad his children and mine go to the same school so this guy i can trust.But with my experiance i even seen the best of friends stab the other in the back.So i have to provent that and keep my saying ringing in my head friends at home no friends during business.Whats funny my wife gave me trust when i first wanted to try this all we had was 200.00 to our name.I rented a rug doctor cleaned carpets for restaurants for around 4-6 months then had enough to get my first rig.Which was a piece of crap i learned alot about pws i tell you.But the big hurdle is getting over the wife to trust me as she did then and to believe in me.Heck my dream one day is to have crews cleaning and me inspecting there work with others.I think i can do this just dont know how to or maybe just scared to.Marko
 

Florin Nutu

New member
Im not sure, and its just my opinion but I dont like the percent idea. The guy might want to cut corners just to get the job done faster so he can get more jobs under the belt before payday. just my opinion.
 

cleanhoods

New member
Im not sure, and its just my opinion but I dont like the percent idea. The guy might want to cut corners just to get the job done faster so he can get more jobs under the belt before payday. just my opinion.

Well i see hourly as a risk cause they could be in the res. and claim extra time and i wouldnt set up but usually one per night is how i do.Now Sunday i did two but i had to finisg both places before they open.But i feel the percent thing is probably the best.But a question why do you feel hourly is better?And the corner cutting will not be tolerated for one they will traine with me first then when let loose i will inspect there work to be sure the quality i have made with this business remains the same or better!There is no if and or buts high qaulity period.If yo get to a joband dont feel well and i have been there i wil leave a note and tell my customer i will be back another time and explain why.But to half rear end the job that is a NO! Thank you for your sugestion and i will keep in mind to look out for the corner cutters thank you.
Marko
 

Dave Olson

New member
"I have been cleaning on my own no help since 1997 and coming to these sites it has encouraged me to grow my business and expand.It looks more profitable i think? Any help would helpfull."

"It looks more profitable I think?" If you run more crews your total revenue will increase but your PROFITABLY may not! Robert Hinderliter of Delco Cleaning Systems wrote an article on just this subject several years ago.

If your not sure that your profits will increase, do more research before you take the plunge! Check out Delco's site you may find some of Robert's articles.

My $.02 worth,

Dave Olson
 

topcoat

Contributing Member
I agree with Dave.

If I would add one thing, its that I can't imagine making any important decisions about my business without talking to my bookkeeper and/or accountant.

Hiring is easier to do in a strong market because you can be more confident in your planning based on how busy you know you will be. These days its more complex. If you are swamped with work this winter, its a great time to be hiring.

It sounds like it might take you awhile to get a new man up to flying solo, so you will have to take alot of things into account if you move on this. Believe it or not, alot of work that you can do very efficiently by yourself will take longer at first with a helper. Theres an investment that you have to be sure you can make right now.
 

cleanhoods

New member
"I have been cleaning on my own no help since 1997 and coming to these sites it has encouraged me to grow my business and expand.It looks more profitable i think? Any help would helpfull."

"It looks more profitable I think?" If you run more crews your total revenue will increase but your PROFITABLY may not! Robert Hinderliter of Delco Cleaning Systems wrote an article on just this subject several years ago.

If your not sure that your profits will increase, do more research before you take the plunge! Check out Delco's site you may find some of Robert's articles.

My $.02 worth,

Dave Olson

Thank you kinda like the wifes answer.See the money i am making is good for one man and my family.But i would have to get more work to support more and my wife and i had been back and forth about this.I would like to grow but just dont know how to begin.Basicly it is another family to support and i better be right or all families will be jobless.Just this input from you all will help as some of you already been there.I see growth as big money but also can lead to bigger problems most inportant quality is what i am concerned about.Even hiring a helper would cut on my pay and it wouldnt make the wife happy as some of you all know,lol.Man those women are our back bones huh?Yhank you again and i think i will remain solo for now till i figure this out.
Marko
 

cleanhoods

New member
I agree with Dave.

If I would add one thing, its that I can't imagine making any important decisions about my business without talking to my bookkeeper and/or accountant.

Hiring is easier to do in a strong market because you can be more confident in your planning based on how busy you know you will be. These days its more complex. If you are swamped with work this winter, its a great time to be hiring.

It sounds like it might take you awhile to get a new man up to flying solo, so you will have to take alot of things into account if you move on this. Believe it or not, alot of work that you can do very efficiently by yourself will take longer at first with a helper. Theres an investment that you have to be sure you can make right now.

I think i am seeing the light i should of stated a poll.Grow or not?LOL. I think i am going to wait and just go out ,which i havent done in 8 years, and sell work then when i am over welmed then i will think about hiring.Get the business first then hire on perm. help.thank you all you all have been a great help.
Marko
 

Josh Dodson

New member
"I have been cleaning on my own no help since 1997 and coming to these sites it has encouraged me to grow my business and expand.It looks more profitable i think? Any help would helpfull."

"It looks more profitable I think?" If you run more crews your total revenue will increase but your PROFITABLY may not! Robert Hinderliter of Delco Cleaning Systems wrote an article on just this subject several years ago.

If your not sure that your profits will increase, do more research before you take the plunge! Check out Delco's site you may find some of Robert's articles.

My $.02 worth,

Dave Olson

I wish I would have read that article when it came out. Many times I held my paycheck for several weeks so I would have enough to make payroll and pay expenses. It will take about 3 well managed crews to make the money you make cleaning hoods as one crew.....I learned the tough way, but it has made me who I am today. Make sure you have plenty of cash stashed back for hard times.

The most challenging part of making the transition from owner/operator to employer is figuring people out. I have learned alot about people of the night in the past few years. Good night people are very hard to find.

$.02 from a veteran of the industry like Mr. Olson is equivalent to $100 from anyone else.
 

Ken Fenner

Active member
I thoroughly agree with the others. Here are my additions.

A one man show will be around as long as that one man is healthy, content and able to work. There will be no legacy to hand down. Nothing of value to sell. That one man owns a job, not a business. I'm not knocking it, many are content with working hard and making enough to pay the bills and take a vacation every year. The business model of a one-man show is very fragile. You may go your whole life without someone running a red light and T-boning you at 40 mph. Then again, you may not. I understand that no one can start off with ten employees but you have been in business long enough that you should not be out cleaning at all. You should be out selling, marketing and building relationships with large accounts. Marko, I suggest you get a book called E-Myth. They also have it on audio tape. It will be the single biggest life changing book you will ever read or listen to.

Whenever I explore growing larger I look at the diminishing return on adding crews. Josh said it perfectly. Just because you double your workforce, you do not double your profit. Its always a better idea to raise prices. It sounds like you are priced too low, Marko. Most of the one man shows price too low. Why is that? Because they do not think ahead abbout the time they will need employees and to create job positions like sales, operations managers and foremen. Those are the things that a BUSINESS may require.

You are a young guy. You are also smart enough to understand that you are going to wear out. If you are looking to hire someone it is because the work load is getting too great. Start by raising those prices. Yes, some restaurants may drop out but so what? You will actually make more money working less. As your book builds back up, you will then have the proper profit margins to begin hiring employees and your wife won't notice a thing becuase you will be making the same money you are making now.
 

cleanhoods

New member
Thank you all fo rthe advice and i will think on it all.I will check that book out as well.After talking to several being an employer isnt MY best road to take at the time.Now i have 4 sons that will be men soon and i feel i will hand them the business and maybe it will grow.Now as of work i got plennty of work but can always handle more heck i got most of my days free you know.Price wise i am not cheap but fair is the best way to put it.My prices are the same as others but sometimes it can be cheaper then sometimes it can be higher it all depends.Some areas i go i have to charge more because it takes an hour or two to drive but the local will out bid me everytime.Then i have some that is less then a mile away and the price cant be beat.So i am what i call fair not cheap or expencsive just fair is all i tell people.Anyways thank you all for the help and i think i figured out a way got a good suggestion and i think i will use this persons advice.Learned at the hospital almost had my number 6 lol but we were sent home but hopefully moma will have soon so ii dont have to be so worried about her .Thank you ALL.
Marko
 

DJ Carroll

New member
You are a young guy. You are also smart enough to understand that you are going to wear out. If you are looking to hire someone it is because the work load is getting too great. Start by raising those prices. Yes, some restaurants may drop out but so what? You will actually make more money working less. As your book builds back up, you will then have the proper profit margins to begin hiring employees and your wife won't notice a thing becuase you will be making the same money you are making now.

This is something that Ken told me earlier this year, since then Ken and I have became great friends and I look up to him as one of my mentors . . . The sooner you grasp this "concept" the better you will be. . . I am far from perfect and am far from figuring this thing they call business out but with time i know i will grow my business into a successful one and it will all be from building off of the paragraph ken just typed . . . Good luck marko
 

Ken Fenner

Active member
DJ, this is the cycle of success. In the very near future you will be able to hand down what you have learned through the teachings of others. What rocks is that you will also be able to add the wisdom of your own trials and tribulations to your teachings. This is the motivation and the reason I am so involved in getting the UAMCC up and running. Thanks DJ. you are a good pupil. :yes:
 

Matt Bryan

Donating Member
I agree with Dave on the Delco articles. The one that has inspired me to grow the most is this one http://www.dcs1.com/articles/gold.html

I got a chance to spend a few days with the man mentioned in that article last month, and it was nothing short of life changing. The adjustments we have made to our company since that meeting have made all of the difference in the world, in a word the difference was: PROFIT.

You can work as hard as you want on anything, but if you are just working hard scraping grease, that is all you will ever be, a great greaser. Focus on becoming a great business man, turn the work over to trusted men, and get on with the business of MAKING MONEY!!!

The smartest man I have ever known once gave me this little tidbit. He asked me what business he was in, I said the grease business. He said wrong, I am in the money making business.

Get yourself out of the grease business and in to the money making business and you will be happier than you could ever imagine.
 

Ken Fenner

Active member
Excellent, Matt. How can you not love the tale of the Mirza Empire? There are a million greasers, pressure washers and one man bands out there that know how to clean. Their businesses stands on one leg though when it comes to sales, marketing, management and acquisitions. I've said it before and I will say it again. Whenever you listen to or read something from someone successful, you always hear the same basic story.
 

RMedbery

New member
I read this a few years ago, this part is just too hard to believe.
Christie recalls that it took her and Daryl three hours to clean their first hood, which would only take them about 25 minutes today
25 minutes? I would love to see that.
 
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