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Thread: HVAC finally going to take off

  1. #11

    Default Re: HVAC finally going to take off

    Quote Originally Posted by Double07 View Post
    Dang man. That is something. I just use chem and water hose to clean condensers and evaps. I have this one chem that i use for both applications..if the con is really dirty i just beef up the mix. I'm not a fan of the hot stuff that you need to spray with one hand and shoot with a hose in the other. If any of you guys are thinking about cleaning coils on hvac/refrigeration then make sure you are allowed to clean those without a license so you don't get one of those nasty cease and desist orders and also be aware that you can easily damage a condenser with a pressure washer. I have seen some that would take HOURS to repair that someone blasted.

    You're in a tougher area for any kind of fin type heat exchanger cleaning.

    We don't have mold or fungus or any other junk like that out here. Just dust. ( I remember driving through Houston in the summer in a brand new car and the AC couldn't keep up because of the humidity.)

    I haven't found a condenser yet that couldn't be cleaned with cold water, hot water. or simple green. We hit evaps with coil cleaner a lot of the time though.

    There is a thread either on here or pwi about state requirements. If I remember right there are two states where you "might" have to be licenses to clean evaps because of the opening of the unit. (Florida, Georgia?) Texas is ok. It appears they tried to pass a law two years ago to limit it to licensed techs, but it failed in the legislature.

    But you've got a license to chill don't you?
    Sonitx
    702-358-7477





    Free FREE Events www.uamccevents.com

  • #12

    Default Re: HVAC finally going to take off

    That sounds great Tony! I have been reading your posts for awhile on PWI and now here,and love your enthusiasm for your business. I do KEC and HVAC air duct cleaning and your service and filters seem like a perfect add on.I would like to give you a call during the week also.I have hot water skid mount ,and hot water electric portable pressure washers,but I think my steam vapor machines would be great for coil and condenser cleaning.They work on high temp 300 degrees and low pressure 90 to 100 psi,and would be great to clean condensers and coils without worrying about the pressure damaging the fins.
    Safeclean Services
    Kitchen Exhaust System Service
    EPA compliant Hot Pressure washing
    HVAC Air Duct Cleaning
    Tile& Grout cleaning&restoration
    (570)878-6841

  • #13

    Default Re: HVAC finally going to take off

    Quote Originally Posted by Safeclean View Post
    That sounds great Tony! I have been reading your posts for awhile on PWI and now here,and love your enthusiasm for your business. I do KEC and HVAC air duct cleaning and your service and filters seem like a perfect add on.I would like to give you a call during the week also.I have hot water skid mount ,and hot water electric portable pressure washers,but I think my steam vapor machines would be great for coil and condenser cleaning.They work on high temp 300 degrees and low pressure 90 to 100 psi,and would be great to clean condensers and coils without worrying about the pressure damaging the fins.

    You might want to check with some other HVAC guys. I was told to keep it under 180 degrees of you can degrade the freon. I don't know if that's true or not. I should research that some more.
    Sonitx
    702-358-7477





    Free FREE Events www.uamccevents.com

  • #14

    Default Re: HVAC finally going to take off

    I will have to check into that also.The 300 degrees is inside the boiler of the steamer.I doubt it's that hot coming out of the wand,and you can actually hold your hand a few inches from the end of the wand and the steam coming out is not that hot.It is too hot right were it comes out of the wand ,but just a few inches away it will not burn your hand or feel that hot,the heat dissipates that fast.
    Safeclean Services
    Kitchen Exhaust System Service
    EPA compliant Hot Pressure washing
    HVAC Air Duct Cleaning
    Tile& Grout cleaning&restoration
    (570)878-6841

  • #15

    Default Re: HVAC finally going to take off

    Tony
    Have you ever checked into coatings for the evaporators or coils.I went to a seminar,and a training class for a coating called microguard. It was developed for the space shuttle to coat metals so they would not corrode with the high heat .The scientist who developed it bought the commercial rights and it is pretty amazing.I have not done anything with it yet as I did not have a chance to go to the second class,and field training to get certified but they are using it to coat HVAC systems in corrosion prone areas and they have documented proof that it is doubling the life span of rooftop HVAC systems since it protects it from the elements and mold or corrosion can not form on it,they coat the coils and evaporators.They have a version that they use on tile and grout floors that seals the floors and makes them look great for years,since no mold can grow on it,and it makes the floors look like new,and actually looks shiny,but increases the slip resistance of the floors.They just don't sell it to contractors you have to contact them and attend training classes and get certified.It is free to attend the classes.This is not a sales pitch for this stuff,I was just wondered if you looked into coatings for the HVAC systems as an add on to your business.
    Safeclean Services
    Kitchen Exhaust System Service
    EPA compliant Hot Pressure washing
    HVAC Air Duct Cleaning
    Tile& Grout cleaning&restoration
    (570)878-6841

  • #16

    Default Re: HVAC finally going to take off

    Quote Originally Posted by Safeclean View Post
    Tony
    Have you ever checked into coatings for the evaporators or coils.I went to a seminar,and a training class for a coating called microguard. It was developed for the space shuttle to coat metals so they would not corrode with the high heat .The scientist who developed it bought the commercial rights and it is pretty amazing.I have not done anything with it yet as I did not have a chance to go to the second class,and field training to get certified but they are using it to coat HVAC systems in corrosion prone areas and they have documented proof that it is doubling the life span of rooftop HVAC systems since it protects it from the elements and mold or corrosion can not form on it,they coat the coils and evaporators.They have a version that they use on tile and grout floors that seals the floors and makes them look great for years,since no mold can grow on it,and it makes the floors look like new,and actually looks shiny,but increases the slip resistance of the floors.They just don't sell it to contractors you have to contact them and attend training classes and get certified.It is free to attend the classes.This is not a sales pitch for this stuff,I was just wondered if you looked into coatings for the HVAC systems as an add on to your business.
    I looked into it a little bit and tried a gallon of it. First it is almost $100/gallon. Second it's really hard to get it into the coils. It will penetrate the first layer, but you have to go around inside and spray on a layer from the inside.

    I have a three layer coil that I tried it on and I'm afraid that if if does work, the layers with the coating will be ok, but the layer in the middle will be dirty. I'm still experimenting with this.
    Sonitx
    702-358-7477





    Free FREE Events www.uamccevents.com

  • #17

    Default Re: HVAC finally going to take off

    Tony...this is a outstanding thread and I would like to thank you for bringing so much value to this subject.

    You definately get a 'atta boy' on this one.
    [B]Carlos Gonzales[/B]
    [B]New Look Power Wash
    [URL="http://www.newlookpowerwash.com"]Pressure Wash in California[/URL][/B]
    [URL="http://www.newlookpowerwash.com/category/uncategorized"][B]California Pressure Washing Blog[/B][/URL]
    [B][URL="http://www.newlookpowerwash.com/california-pressure-wash-blog/pressure-wash-services-in-san-francisco.html"]Pressure Wash Services in San Francisco[/URL][/B]

  • #18

    Default Re: HVAC finally going to take off

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyshelton View Post
    You might want to check with some other HVAC guys. I was told to keep it under 180 degrees of you can degrade the freon. I don't know if that's true or not. I should research that some more.
    I have never seen any information that freon can degrade in any form or fashion. There are 3 things that can happen to "freon". 1. It can leak out 2. If it's a blend and you have a small leak it can fractionize (blends are made up of several different refrigerants and they all have a specific glide factor thus they leak at diff rates) 3. When "freon" comes into contact with air then acid forms.

    The only thing you need to be concerned with in cleaning coils is the temperature. "Freon" has a direct relationship with pressure/temperature. I looked on my chart and it only goes to 155*F which would produce 405 psi with R-22. At 200 plus degrees you could be creating a pressure which could cause a rupture someplace in the high side of the system. In most cases this would be the compressor shell (depending on what type of system you are working on). Worst case sceneriao is you will severely damage the equipment. The other risk you are running is systems that have a high side manual reset. You turn the unit back on after cleaning and nothing happens. There are not a ton of those systems out there as manufactures are cheap and don't install this cheap part although im sure most of the R410 units will come with them as we transition from R22 to 410a.

    HVAC is like all other trades when it comes to hacks. If you are dealing with a system that has been exposed to air in the system and acid has formed and been running forever then the integrity of the copper will be very degraded. I had a walk in cooler that had some holes in the u-bends of the evap and when I put my finger up there to feel the air, the entire u-bend crumbled under light pressure from my touch. I tested this system and it was one of the highest concentrations of acid that I have ever seen!

    I did see an article one time in a HVAC magazine that showed this guy going around to motels across the country and "steam" cleaning the coils. It was talking about how this would kill any germs/bacteria that may be living in these unscrupulous places and how steam cleaning would kill those germs and get the coils sparkling clean. This can be something that anyone in the states should be able to do since these units are "self contained". They are basically window units and you can even service them in most cases unless your state catches you with the "commercial" clause which would result in a licensed blah blah blah to do the job.

    And yes Tony I have a license to Chill...even freeze...but my license to cool is still waiting on me to take that test. I guess I better get that done in the next month or so....before the Texas heat wave gets here anyway.

    Bottom line is let the chemicals do the work that you need them to do and be careful even using a water hose to rinse with as you can damage coils by looking at them wrong.
    007 Refrigeration
    We Have A License To Chill
    Mickey Finn
    903-372-5047

  • #19

    Default Re: HVAC finally going to take off

    Quote Originally Posted by Double07 View Post
    I have never seen any information that freon can degrade in any form or fashion. There are 3 things that can happen to "freon". 1. It can leak out 2. If it's a blend and you have a small leak it can fractionize (blends are made up of several different refrigerants and they all have a specific glide factor thus they leak at diff rates) 3. When "freon" comes into contact with air then acid forms..............................
    Bottom line is let the chemicals do the work that you need them to do and be careful even using a water hose to rinse with as you can damage coils by looking at them wrong.
    I don't know where I heard about the "degredation" possibility, I just heard it and it sounded possible so I haven't gone above 180 degrees (which is really about 140 by the time the water hits the coils.

    Like I said, I need to look into it more. I have the flu this week so I"m not in top gear.
    Sonitx
    702-358-7477





    Free FREE Events www.uamccevents.com

  • #20

    Default Re: HVAC finally going to take off

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyshelton View Post
    I don't know where I heard about the "degredation" possibility, I just heard it and it sounded possible so I haven't gone above 180 degrees (which is really about 140 by the time the water hits the coils.

    Like I said, I need to look into it more. I have the flu this week so I"m not in top gear.
    In a running system, heat can cause the oil to break down but this is not possible from a pressure washer cleaning. The refrigerant, however, will react pressure wise to the heat transfer of hot water faster than you can spit. This is the only concern that I can see anyone having except for maybe forgetting to turn the disconnect off and running some water across the condenser fan motor;)
    007 Refrigeration
    We Have A License To Chill
    Mickey Finn
    903-372-5047

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