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Which is better?

Tony Evans

Board of Director
You pressure cleaners already know that flow (or gpm) is more important than pressure (psi). Not to say pressure isn't important but too much will be a detriment in pure water cleaning. I did a video that demonstrates that point.

 
I would say that GPM and PSI are equally important. One can not work without the other and to pick one over the other is impossible. In my opinion.

Also in your video (unless you adjusted the flow) you have the same flow in both small orifice and big orifice. The reason you're getting that splash back is because your trying to push that much water through a smaller hole. If you lower the flow of water that won't happen. It's not the size of the pencil jets that do that but the amount of flow. Also it's important to understand that smaller jets were made in the UK to conserve water for window cleaners.
 

Tony Evans

Board of Director
Chris you would be incorrect on the flow issue. Here's a video that shows how larger diameter openings or hose produce more water in the same amount of time.


As I said in my original post it's not that pressure isn't important but good flow is the more important part in making sure you get a good rinse for a flawless end product. The reason I got splash back was because the smaller diameter orifice produced too much pressure by restricting the flow of water at the jet.
 
Lower the flow and that won't happen. Remember I use a water fed pole and I have big, small, and fan jets. Do this. Take a small jet and a big jer and fill up a gallon of water and time it. I'm willing to bet they both fill up at the same time.
 

Tony Evans

Board of Director
Did you not watch the video on the hoses Kris? When you have a smaller jet you restrict (or lessen) the amount of water that gets thru. Larger orifices mean more water thru. It's pretty simple.
 
Yes I did watch it. They are comparing a 3/8ths hose to a 5/16ths hose, of course it gonna change the flow. The size differences between the two jets you showed in your video is what? a few millimeters? The flow isn't going to be affected at that small of a scale. Like I said (3 times now) lower the flow and you won't have that splash back problem. You can also do a little science test like I suggested earlier to see if what I say is correct or not. Having pencil jets is not what causes the splash back.... it's the amount of flow.
 

Tony Evans

Board of Director
Kris, splash back is caused by pressure not flow. You do know that the difference between those hoses is only 1/16th of an inch right? And that's less than 2 millimeters which is about the same difference in orifice sizes between the 2 jets I'm using. But the whole point here is that instead of restricting the amount of water I'm using as you suggest (which means slowing down the speed of cleaning) I can work faster with more water volume and no splash back. I know you are new to wfp work and maybe that's what's confusing you here.
 
The difference between a 5/16th and 3/8ths hose is 'almost double the size. That's a pretty big difference.

The Pressure coming from the small orifice is caused by the amount of flow being pushed through. So again it's flow. Ask yourself this; What causes pressure? Pressure does not exist on it's own accord. Pressure needs a material to pressurize. Take for example my pump on my pressure washer. It's job is to push my water at 5 gpm's and 3,000 PSI's through my pressure hose. Pressure is being caused by how the pump is pulling and pushing water out of it.

Tony, I've been doing windows for a year now and I have a water fed pole with everything you probably have. I have big jets, small jets, and even fan jets. I have used them all know what they are capable of and what they are not. Yes a bigger orifice is going to allow more flow of water thus reducing (as you put it) the pressure. But what ever jet you are using can have it's flow adjusted so it works properly in that application.
 

Tony Evans

Board of Director
Kris you missed the main point. I think it's your desire to argue that's getting in the way here. More flow will allow for faster scrubbing and rinsing. To get more pressure you sacrifice flow by restricting the water thru smaller jets. In the world of water fed poles flow is more vital to a faster clean. You don't need a ton of pressure to do the job properly and in fact too much causes more problems than it solves. If I do as you suggest I reduce not only the pressure but loose some flow as well resulting in longer cleaning times. I've been using a wfp for 10 years so I have used many different poles and jet sizes. It's OK that you don't get what I've said as long as you are willing to learn you can be helped.
 

Rance Tilley

Contributing Member
Tony some things are not worth the trouble. Trying to teach someone who thinks they know everything is a waste of time. Kris a 3/8 hose is not almost twice the size of a 5/16 hose. 5/16 + 1/16=6/16 or 3/8. 1/16 is hardly twice the size. Good people trying to teach you something and yet you want to argue as usual. I guarantee you do not know near as much about window cleaning after only one year compared to a guy who has been cleaning glass for ten years. Tony thanks for the video. Good job in explaining the difference between flow and pressure!
 

Doug Rucker

UAMCC Board of Directors
Ok guys. Debate all you want. This is good. But keep it professional and non accusatory. Remember we are an org and are all members here to help each other, ALL of us. We can get along and still disagree.. Thanks
 
Quick note; Don't take stabs at me and I won't take stabs at you. It's that simple.

I'm at least man enough to admit when I'm wrong and even though I have both of the tubings shown in the video and when put next to each other the 3/8th's and the 5/16th's hose it may look like double the size. I was reminded by someone that it not the outside that matter, but the inner side and the 3/8ths tubing is thicker. So no there is not the big difference between the two hoses that I had originally thought.

I still stand-by what I said earlier that if you lower the flow of water when using the pencil jets you won't have that splashback.
 

Tony Evans

Board of Director
Simply put the best way to clean is with more flow. Reducing the flow to eliminate splashback is not effective if efficiency is your goal. A simple upgrade to larger jets will allow more flow without the splashback from too much pressure.
 
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