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Should pressure washing companies be licensed

Should pressure washing companies be licensed??


  • Total voters
    0

Michael Kreisle

Contributing Member
As highlighted in red above. Which of those highlighted "annoying rules" has been the golden key to removing hacks and protecting homeowners? WC? UI? FICA? Osha? CWA? My point it licensing is just another rule to be broken.

Look how much sense the rules make now.

I use temp labor. I've used the same guys for years. Their WC is paid by the staffing company, Yet I have to pay $1000.00 per year to for WC even though I and the other board members have exempted themselves. There is NO LIABILITY on the part of the insurance company but I still have to pay $1000 per year because the Government requires it. The insurance company tells me they understand but it is out of their hands. Stupid.

What about UI, and Fica? Who cares. I sleep well because I play by the rules. I've been audited twice for two three year periods and came out smelling like a rose because I play by the rules. Who cares what some other guy does. Eventually he will probably be audited.

Osha is the same way, We've been hit once by Osha, not because we were breaking the rules but because the local (ignorant) osha guy didn't understand the law that clearly states as a business owner I am exempt from Osha Regs. Just another example of the Government stepping in with one of their finest only to be sent limping home.

Now, so you don't get the wrong idea UI, Fica, and Osha are put in place to PROTECT the worker, not the consumer. I'm not "against" them. They are already there. They apply to everyone, and not just one industry.

I'm for the second part of our paragraph, get rid of the rules. It's just not possible once the government has a hand in it.

Please sit down and count up how much all of those things including any licensing you might have that a hack does not have and post how much more per hour you REALLY have to charge to make up the difference. It won't be as much as you think.

Tony, it is the other non-governmental stuff that really gets cut in order to slash prices. First, if a fuy doesn't know that he's supposed to pay WC, UI, FICA etc, then they rarely know how to figure ROI, Understand real definition of profit, know how to figure cost of goods, calculate customer cost acquisition, have a keen idea of what salary to draw etc...... Due to this lack of knowledge, we are seeing bids one fourth to one half of ours regularly. I should not have to even TRY to get close to a unknowledgable persons prices. The largest difference I see when looking at pricing is Salary requirements. (Self Worth in many cases) Even on equal ground as far as insurances and such, a guy willing to live on $30K/year will underbid a guy that needs $110K/yr to live a decent lifestyle and put away for future etc. The uneducated "Business Owner" will think everything is fine for a while meeking by and will eventually go out of business. To this you say "good", but in reality, while meeking by, he stole undeserved $$$ away from those of us that put in the time/effort to learn how to run profitable and long lasting businesses. In the meantime he has given the consumer base a false idea of what or work is worth.
 

Tony Shelton

Environmental Consultant / Past Director
Your right, this is a National BBS but all this government conspiracy stuff is a waste of time. My question was Should pressure washing companies be licensed? I didn't ask what your latest conspiracy theory is or this endless banter.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and we have all heard what Sontix and Rmedbury have to say. Okay, your against it. BUT, let other people have thier own opinion as well, or offer a suggestion or idea instead of tearing apart everything others are saying.
"The government is irresponsible with our money, devises methods to confiscate our money to perpetuate its growing payroll, and most enforcers of the law or woefully ignorant of the law" -- Somehow that statement of fact has now become a "conspiracy theory".

If I had said, "**** Cheney started the war in Iraq so he and all his buddies could steal all the mideast oil" you guys would think I was a genius and should run for congress!

Ok, so now I'm a conspiracy theorist. When losing the argument, go after the character of the opponent. It's classic.

I haven't put a block on this thread so that only you, Roger, Beth and I can post. Anyone can post on this thread. I welcome anyone to tear apart my logic. If you can do a good enough job of it, I'm not even against changing my mind.

It's impossible to debate without "tearing apart" what the competition says. Without that logic inserted into debates, arguments would be nothing but -

Post 1
"Yes it is" -
Post 2
"No it isn't -
etc, etc.

You are unable to "tear apart" what Roger and I have been saying, so now you just want us to go away.

And by the way Henry, My name is Tony (it's my sign on name and its right in the top left corner of each post.) And R. Medbury's name is Roger.

As long as I'm allowed I'll continue to fight against bringing more government regulations into our lives. Your only recourse is to convince me I'm wrong.
 

Tony Shelton

Environmental Consultant / Past Director
Tony, it is the other non-governmental stuff that really gets cut in order to slash prices. First, if a fuy doesn't know that he's supposed to pay WC, UI, FICA etc, then they rarely know how to figure ROI, Understand real definition of profit, know how to figure cost of goods, calculate customer cost acquisition, have a keen idea of what salary to draw etc...... Due to this lack of knowledge, we are seeing bids one fourth to one half of ours regularly. I should not have to even TRY to get close to a unknowledgable persons prices. The largest difference I see when looking at pricing is Salary requirements. (Self Worth in many cases) Even on equal ground as far as insurances and such, a guy willing to live on $30K/year will underbid a guy that needs $110K/yr to live a decent lifestyle and put away for future etc. The uneducated "Business Owner" will think everything is fine for a while meeking by and will eventually go out of business. To this you say "good", but in reality, while meeking by, he stole undeserved $$$ away from those of us that put in the time/effort to learn how to run profitable and long lasting businesses. In the meantime he has given the consumer base a false idea of what or work is worth.
It's up to you to educate your customers and go snatch the customers who have been taken advantage of by low quality Pressure Washers. That is your market. It's your job to sell them. It's not easy, that's why there aren't very many successful business owners.

What if the other guy with less "self worth" than you have IS the benchmark and you are the one out of line? Why not let the market decide that instead of the government. If your prices are too high for the market to bear, then you have two choices:
1) Lower your prices and live within your means or
2) Find a way to do it better, faster, or cheaper so that you can match the market prices and keep your standard of living.

The problem is you guys are advocating the cheating of the market system by inserting unnatural government rules into the market slanting the favor in your direction without any improvement or other changes on your part. You want the government to step in and deliver your market to you. That is bypassing the laws of supply and demand by limiting the supply through government force.

As stated before, it's morally wrong.
 

Jeff LeCours

New member
"The government is irresponsible with our money, devises methods to confiscate our money to perpetuate its growing payroll, and most enforcers of the law or woefully ignorant of the law" -- Somehow that statement of fact has now become a "conspiracy theory".

If I had said, "**** Cheney started the war in Iraq so he and all his buddies could steal all the mideast oil" you guys would think I was a genius and should run for congress!

Ok, so now I'm a conspiracy theorist. When losing the argument, go after the character of the opponent. It's classic.

I haven't put a block on this thread so that only you, Roger, Beth and I can post. Anyone can post on this thread. I welcome anyone to tear apart my logic. If you can do a good enough job of it, I'm not even against changing my mind.

It's impossible to debate without "tearing apart" what the competition says. Without that logic inserted into debates, arguments would be nothing but -

Post 1
"Yes it is" -
Post 2
"No it isn't -
etc, etc.

You are unable to "tear apart" what Roger and I have been saying, so now you just want us to go away.

And by the way Henry, My name is Tony (it's my sign on name and its right in the top left corner of each post.) And R. Medbury's name is Roger.

As long as I'm allowed I'll continue to fight against bringing more government regulations into our lives. Your only recourse is to convince me I'm wrong.

You need to get out and work more. To much time on these BB's is self destructive. :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
 

RMedbery

New member
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and we have all heard what Sontix and Rmedbury have to say. Okay, your against it. BUT, let other people have thier own opinion as well, or offer a suggestion or idea instead of tearing apart everything others are saying.
Interesting..........the only 2 youve singled out are the 2 that are very much against it. Seems you weren't asking everyones opinion, you were only wanting to bolster your ego by having everyone agree with your view. If that is NOT true you would have included people that keep saying they are for it.
 

Tony Shelton

Environmental Consultant / Past Director
You need to get out and work more. To much time on these BB's is self destructive. :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
You're right Jeff, I do need to get out and work. I forgot about that extra 80 G's I'm going to have to make this year to help pay "my part" for the screwups of the highly regulated, unionized and "licensed" auto manufacturing and banking industries.


Thank goodness for government oversight.
 

Jeff LeCours

New member
You're right Jeff, I do need to get out and work. I forgot about that extra 80 G's I'm going to have to make this year to help pay "my part" for the screwups of the highly regulated, unionized and "licensed" auto manufacturing and banking industries.


Thank goodness for government oversight.
Go to the light, change has come Tony LOL LOL



Everyone lets just voice our opinions and have a good debate
:beatdeadhorse5::beatdeadhorse5::beatdeadhorse5:

Oh ya and have a nice day
 

RMedbery

New member
Instead of a license, why not a certification? And not just a written test certification but a performance certification. You have to pass both, written to test your knowledge, practical to test your ability. Practicals could be observed by other members. Different certifications for each area; flatwork, buildings, windows, roofs, decks, fleets.........oh yeah.......and KEC. I think this would help "protect" the consumer much more than a license.
 

Beth Borrego

New member
Hey Carlos, they enforce it now for deck staining and other services we provide like gutter repairs. They look for contractors that should be licensed to ensure that they are. If not, they are contacted and told they need to become licensed. Quite a few publications won't allow you to run an ad for a service unless you have the license. The MHIC does have power and they do use it to make sure consumers are protected and scam contractors are found and dealt with. They also run spot checks and on occasion, scam checks to make sure contractors aren't ripping people off.

Sometimes they also call a bunch of contractors for bids on doing work, just to check their license, and to make sure they aren't breaking the law or codes..
If they enforced it well....then we would have fewer headaches. I don't see that enforcement as being as strong as you think.... and MOST publications WILL take your money and look the other way....Clipper sure did, even after numerous complaints by me.

Beth
 

Jeff LeCours

New member
Instead of a license, why not a certification? And not just a written test certification but a performance certification. You have to pass both, written to test your knowledge, practical to test your ability. Practicals could be observed by other members. Different certifications for each area; flatwork, buildings, windows, roofs, decks, fleets.........oh yeah.......and KEC. I think this would help "protect" the consumer much more than a license.
I think that would help more than anything else. good idea. I know little about KEC, but have seen they have some certifications, how do they work?. I wonder how this could be implimented throughout the industry.
 

RMedbery

New member
Sad thing is, it doesnt work in KEC. The certifying bodies administer a written test, collect a large sum of money and you become certified. The consumer is duped into thinking their system is being properly cleaned because the company is "certified". Thats why I mentioned the practical part, you not only have to know the job, you have to show that you can actually do it.
 

Jeff LeCours

New member
Sad thing is, it doesnt work in KEC. The certifying bodies administer a written test, collect a large sum of money and you become certified. The consumer is duped into thinking their system is being properly cleaned because the company is "certified". Thats why I mentioned the practical part, you not only have to know the job, you have to show that you can actually do it.
See I didnt know I thought the KEC had a practical part

I like your idea A LOT, practical hands on is the best way, it would be a big undertaking thats for sure.

Question for you and others. Should an Org like the UAMCC tackle something like this in the future or should it be kept to private companies?
 

Tony Shelton

Environmental Consultant / Past Director
See I didnt know I thought the KEC had a practical part

I like your idea A LOT, practical hands on is the best way, it would be a big undertaking thats for sure.

Question for you and others. Should an Org like the UAMCC tackle something like this in the future or should it be kept to private companies?
In the HVAC and Duct cleaning orgs there are many certifications.

Since 2004 I've only had one customer ask if I was certified. I still got the account even though I wasn't. This customer got five bids and told me all the other four were certified but for some reason he liked me. :rolleyes:

I got their names and came back to the office to check and sure enough two of them lied.

From what I understand this is common.

Many times the customer doesn't care if someone is certified or not, they just want good quality work at a good price. Even if they do care, they are too lazy to confirm if someone is certified or not and most scam artists know it.
 

Jeff LeCours

New member
In the HVAC and Duct cleaning orgs there are many certifications.

Since 2004 I've only had one customer ask if I was certified. I still got the account even though I wasn't. This customer got five bids and told me all the other four were certified but for some reason he liked me. :rolleyes:

I got their names and came back to the office to check and sure enough two of them lied.

From what I understand this is common.

Many times the customer doesn't care if someone is certified or not, they just want good quality work at a good price. Even if they do care, they are too lazy to confirm if someone is certified or not and most scam artists know it.
I agree many just care if you have insurance, but many hire me because of word of mouth, experience etc etc. If there was hands on training, I think it would be a plus, just for the fact you could learn how to do it right to a proper industry standard and then the consumer who cares would know they are hiring a trained professional

Let me go back to my union days. The Painters Union in Boston had a really fantastic apprentice program. It was a 4 year apprentiship. They had to go to like 3 nights a week course for 9 months for 3 years and also TONS of on the job traing with Journeymen. They started with the basics and really worked their way up. By the time the 4th year came around, must these guys really knew how to paint, they knew prep, they knew how to mix paints. I know you will probably roll your eyes just at the mention of union Tony, but this was a great program. But nothing like this 4 year program would happen in this industry, but hands on certification would be better than just a written test
 

Tony Shelton

Environmental Consultant / Past Director
I agree many just care if you have insurance, but many hire me because of word of mouth, experience etc etc. If there was hands on training, I think it would be a plus, just for the fact you could learn how to do it right to a proper industry standard and then the consumer who cares would know they are hiring a trained professional

Let me go back to my union days. The Painters Union in Boston had a really fantastic apprentice program. It was a 4 year apprentiship. They had to go to like 3 nights a week course for 9 months for 3 years and also TONS of on the job traing with Journeymen. They started with the basics and really worked their way up. By the time the 4th year came around, must these guys really knew how to paint, they knew prep, they knew how to mix paints. I know you will probably roll your eyes just at the mention of union Tony, but this was a great program. But nothing like this 4 year program would happen in this industry, but hands on certification would be better than just a written test
Hahahaha LOL that's funny, I think you really are getting to know me Jeff! :biggrin:

No doubt in four years of lugging around equipment for the journeymen those guys would have learned a lot. (we lugged around a lot of journeyman equipment - I was an apprentice electrician and my son was an apprentice ironworker)

These days we have to work alongside Union HVAC guys and they work slow as Christmas.

Last week one of them told me, "If I don't get it all finished today, I'll do it tomorrow.....or the next day....its all just time to me". I called his boss and told him I was adding $200 per hour for every hour he wastes of mine and after that he was moving like a ......well, he moved a little quicker! I thought he was going to have a heart attack because he had to walk at a brisk pace. :saai:

Government intrusion and union demands destroyed our auto manufacturing base in this country. I'm not so sure we want to look in that direction for guidance. (Nothing wrong with training though, there needs to be a better vehicle for it than the union example. Maybe together we can think of something new).
 

Shane Doyle

New member
Although pressure washers can definitely be dangerous, I don't believe they should be licensed. Lot's of things are dangerous but that doesn't mean we license them. Just because some people are idiots doesn't mean everyone else should have to suffer for it.
 

Walt Edwards

New member
I voted no, but not without some reservations. The simple question should we or not does not give enough info to provide a well thought out answer. I would say it should be handled State by State just like Electrical, HVAC, Plumbers, etc.......That's if we wish to be listed as a skilled trade. Each State has it own licensing board for these trades so we need to stay on par with that. Only yes if lots of debate, thought and education has been accomplished. Just my three cents worth
 
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