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Environmental Law for Pressure Washers - The Clean Water Act - What the heck is it?

Tony Evans

Board of Director
Kris you totally misunderstood me. I was simply comparing the fact that there is no way you can classify the pressure cleaning industry in the same way as the industries that were the reason for the CWA.

Tony Evans
tony@anewviewia.com
319-325-9475
Sent from my S4
 
You can not compare what one pressure washer is doing against a big corporation, but you can however compare many pressure washer who are polluting against a big corporation. The clean water act was created to protect the waters of the US, PERIOD!!! It wasn't created for sole purpose of picking on the big man. However it was the actions of these big companies that polluted the water that started the process. IT IS NOT THE SOLE REASON. You need to understand that.

I would define a pressure washer who is a polluter as someone who is not obeying the regulations in their area. Think of it as this as well if you'd like; someone breaking the law is classified as criminal. I do not think that all Pressure washers are criminals/polluters. Are there some out there that do pollute and don't follow regulations? Probably. But I don't think us as an entire industry are polluters.
 

Tony Evans

Board of Director
That's where you and I disagree. Pressure washers collectively couldn't have done that amount of damage. Tony explained it already and you didn't seem to get it then either.

Tony Evans
tony@anewviewia.com
319-325-9475
Sent from my S4
 

Chris Chappell

New member
Here we go again, if only the message can make it make it into the brain and people understand it instead of questioning it and mis-interpreting it we all would be further along than we are now. Wow! I really cannot believe this is happening again, just on another site. Wow!
 
What amount of damage?

You need to consider the variables involved from place to place. Put it this way. If you dump a gallon of oil into a lake and another company comes in and dumps a hundred gallons of oil, does that mean you're not a polluter because now they are a bigger one? NO, you are still a polluter no matter how much you're dumping. You keep thinking "Well it's only a gallon of oil, it won't matter." If you're thinking that it means others are thinking it as well.
 

Tony Shelton

Environmental Consultant / Past Director
See questions below quotes:



Also over a dozen little guys dumping pollution into the water is just as bad as one big company. We can all do our part to our waters clean.

1) What is pollution as defined by the EPA? - Here's a little help from the Clean Water Act. - 1251 a (3)it is the national policy that the discharge of toxic pollutants in toxic amounts be prohibited;

2) What toxic pollutants are you using during your course of business, in toxic amounts, that need to be regulated? - Here, this might help-


  • Acenaphthene
  • Acrolein
  • Acrylonitrile
  • Benzene
  • Benzidine
  • Carbon tetrachloride
  • Chlorobenzene
  • 1,2,4-trichlorobenzene
  • Hexachlorobenzene
  • 1,2-dichloroethane
  • 1,1,1-trichloreothane
  • Hexachloroethane
  • 1,1-dichloroethane
  • 1,1,2-trichloroethane
  • 1,1,2,2-tetrachloroethane
  • Chloroethane
  • REMOVED
  • Bis(2-chloroethyl) ether
  • 2-chloroethyl vinyl ethers
  • 2-chloronaphthalene
  • 2,4,6-trichlorophenol
  • Parachlorometa cresol
  • Chloroform
  • 2-chlorophenol
  • 1,2-dichlorobenzene
  • 1,3-dichlorobenzene
  • 1,4-dichlorobenzene
  • 3,3-dichlorobenzidine
  • 1,1-dichloroethylene
  • 1,2-trans-dichloroethylene
  • 2,4-dichlorophenol
  • 1,2-dichloropropane
  • 1,2-dichloropropylene
  • 2,4-dimethylphenol
  • 2,4-dinitrotoluene
  • 2,6-dinitrotoluene
  • 1,2-diphenylhydrazine
  • Ethylbenzene
  • Fluoranthene
  • 4-chlorophenyl phenyl ether
  • 4-bromophenyl phenyl ether
  • Bis(2-chloroisopropyl) ether
  • Bis(2-chloroethoxy) methane
  • Methylene chloride
  • Methyl chloride
  • Methyl bromide
  • Bromoform
  • Dichlorobromomethane
  • REMOVED
  • REMOVED
  • Chlorodibromomethane
  • Hexachlorobutadiene
  • Hexachlorocyclopentadiene
  • Isophorone
  • Naphthalene
  • Nitrobenzene
  • 2-nitrophenol
  • 4-nitrophenol
  • 2,4-dinitrophenol
  • 4,6-dinitro-o-cresol
  • N-nitrosodimethylamine
  • N-nitrosodiphenylamine
  • N-nitrosodi-n-propylamine
  • Pentachlorophenol
  • Phenol
  • Bis(2-ethylhexyl) phthalate
  • Butyl benzyl phthalate
  • Di-N-Butyl Phthalate
  • Di-n-octyl phthalate
  • Diethyl Phthalate
  • Dimethyl phthalate
  • benzo(a) anthracene
  • Benzo(a)pyrene
  • Benzo(b) fluoranthene
  • Benzo(k) fluoranthene
  • Chrysene
  • Acenaphthylene
  • Anthracene
  • Benzo(ghi) perylene
  • Fluorene
  • Phenanthrene
  • Dibenzo(,h) anthracene
  • Indeno (1,2,3-cd) pyrene
  • Pyrene
  • Tetrachloroethylene
  • Toluene
  • Trichloroethylene
  • Vinyl chloride
  • Aldrin
  • Dieldrin
  • Chlordane
  • 4,4-DDT
  • 4,4-DDE
  • 4,4-DDD
  • Alpha-endosulfan
  • Beta-endosulfan
  • Endosulfan sulfate
  • Endrin
  • Endrin aldehyde
  • Heptachlor
  • Heptachlor epoxide
  • Alpha-BHC
  • Beta-BHC
  • Gamma-BHC
  • Delta-BHC
  • PCB–1242 (Arochlor 1242)
  • PCB–1254 (Arochlor 1254)
  • PCB–1221 (Arochlor 1221)
  • PCB–1232 (Arochlor 1232)
  • PCB–1248 (Arochlor 1248)
  • PCB–1260 (Arochlor 1260)
  • PCB–1016 (Arochlor 1016)
  • Toxaphene
  • Antimony
  • Arsenic
  • Asbestos
  • Beryllium
  • Cadmium
  • Chromium
  • Copper
  • Cyanide, Total
  • Lead
  • Mercury
  • Nickel
  • Selenium
  • Silver
  • Thallium
  • Zinc
  • 2,3,7,8-TCDD
Which of these do you bring on site and use to clean? I just brought this up to bring it to you attention, because as many times as you have read the CWA and related documents I'm sure you already knew all this information.




...... I've read the CWA a few times as it pertains to what I do.

It's also good to remember the The CWA is a basis of guidelines for regulators to follow. Information given by anyone maybe false especially if you are in a different area, doesn't mean they are lying. It is each our own responsibility to find out what regulations are in our area. If anyone says you can or can not do something you need to find out for yourself if you can or can't. Also if you are giving information out make sure that they understand that you are speaking about your area and remind them that it is their responsibility to find out the facts for their area.
1) Please post all areas of the CWA the "pertain" to what you do. It should be pretty easy since you are so familiar with it.

2) Did anyone help you write this Kristopher or did you just copy it off Jim's signature? Federal law is federal law. The local authorities strive to follow federal law. When they are inundated with false information about what we do, like insinuating the we are polluting, they have a fiduciary duty to follow up and do their best to eliminate threats. The idea that a powerwasher, an environmental cleaner by trade, has a negative impact on the environment except in rare cases of pure disregard is ludicrous. The mere fact that most cleaners use "green" cleaning agents when actual toxic chemicals would do a much faster and better job and make us more money should be a clue that we are more environmentally conscious than most.

By that logic then I guess it would be okay for me to change my oil in my truck and just dump it in a lake, right. Or maybe take my used tire and swing that in the ocean as well. right? I mean it's only a small amount of used oil, and what's one tire gonna do? You think because it's small it doesn't matter well why don't you times that by the hundreds of thousands that do the same thing you are insulating.

Need to understand that we as species are polluters. There is no exception to this we all pollute one way or another, and luckily for us and our future generation this pollution is being controlled by the EPA with The CWA. It is with education that we can convince the EPA we are part of the solution, not the problem.
1) How many pressure washers have you ever met who advocated this type of behavior? I've never met one. As a matter of fact, the pressure washers I associate with are far more environmentally conscious than the average Joe changing oil on his truck. Even mentioning something like this makes me wonder what kind of environment you live in there in California.

2) We are all polluters? Again, what kind of world do you live in? We are human beings. We exhale carbon dioxide. We live in civilized societies. We are the only species on the planet that doesn't crap in the river. Your line of reasoning is ludicrous and nothing more than propaganda you were fed in school.

You need to read more. Here's a series of questions.
How many Pressure washers do think there are in the US?
How many gallons of water (on average) does your regular washer use in a day?
Can you multiply that number?

If you wanna keep thinking that your small amount of pollution doesn't matter you go right ahead and think that. It's that way of thinking and practices that gets these stricter regulations put in place. There are reason why they put stricter regulations in place. If you'll giving them a reason to make stricter regulations then yes of course they will.

1) Funny you should ask that. If you bothered to take the time to educate yourself in regards to the discussions we have been having for over 4 years now you may have found this thread which talks about that very issue. http://www.propowerwash.com/board/u...ctive-instead-of-hype-and-fear&highlight=mead . If you had taken the time to study, like you said you were going to do you could have saved yourself the embarrassment of looking like someone who doesn't have a clue. Or perhaps you would like to do the math and propose an alternative theory about the amount of runoff pressure washers have.

2) So this is why stricter regulations get put in place? Because we explain the fact that our industry produces a net positive impact on the environment by removing trash, debris, grease and oils before they can run down the storm drain during massive rainstorms? You need to find someone with an education to help you write these responses. Hint - Garage cleaners or vendors with an agenda to raise prices are not the sharpest tacks in the box.


You can not compare what one pressure washer is doing against a big corporation, but you can however compare many pressure washer who are polluting against a big corporation. The clean water act was created to protect the waters of the US, PERIOD!!! It wasn't created for sole purpose of picking on the big man. However it was the actions of these big companies that polluted the water that started the process. IT IS NOT THE SOLE REASON. You need to understand that.

I would define a pressure washer who is a polluter as someone who is not obeying the regulations in their area. Think of it as this as well if you'd like; someone breaking the law is classified as criminal. I do not think that all Pressure washers are criminals/polluters. Are there some out there that do pollute and don't follow regulations? Probably. But I don't think us as an entire industry are polluters.

1) See the previous remark, then look in the mirror and ask yourself. "Am I really looking to be educated about the clean water act and the EPA, or do I just like to repeat the false presumptions of others with equal ignorance about the law?"

2) If you have a question please ask. If you think you already know the answers, please cite the references instead of just throwing out statements that have no basis in fact.

I spoke to you on the phone the other day. You asked me to help you find your OWN BMPs so I emailed them to you with explanations. Now all the sudden you are an expert on what the CWA is and why it was created and who it targets. It's a miracle! lol.
 

Chris Chappell

New member
By that logic then I guess it would be okay for me to change my oil in my truck and just dump it in a lake, right. Or maybe take my used tire and swing that in the ocean as well. right? I mean it's only a small amount of used oil, and what's one tire gonna do? You think because it's small it doesn't matter well why don't you times that by the hundreds of thousands that do the same thing you are insulating.


He is not insinuating that at all, you need to re-read what he wrote and try to understand what he is saying.



No I don't think that pressure washers are polluters. In fact I think it's part of the solution. Keeping a place clean can help the environment.


We really need to stop using that word as the manipulators and liars out there are using that word to say lies and false information about contractors and trying to get regulators to change regulations to make them more strict. I am not a polluter and most on these forums are not polluters so let's stop using that word as it does not do anyone any good. Here you got me saying it now.


Need to understand that we as species are polluters. There is no exception to this we all pollute one way or another, and luckily for us and our future generation this pollution is being controlled by the EPA with The CWA. It is with education that we can convince the EPA we are part of the solution, not the problem.

It is an uphill battle to show the EPA that we are a solution when there are people out there telling the EPA, city officials and regulators that we are the opposite and they have been doing this for decades as the proof shows in many forums out there. If we all can stop using that word and show the industry and everyone else out there that we are environmental cleaners, things will start to be better and go in the right direction further.
 
Here we go again, if only the message can make it make it into the brain and people understand it instead of questioning it and mis-interpreting it we all would be further along than we are now. Wow! I really cannot believe this is happening again, just on another site. Wow!
So I'm supposed to just understand it and not ask questions? The whole basis of this thread is based on one's perception, and I'm supposed to sit back and say "okay well if he says that it must be law and fact?" Nah I don't think so. I question everything because it matters. I collect information from many sources never just one. These sources could be from individuals, to websites, to books, and many other kinds. It is my responsibility to make sure the information I receive is factual with-in my area. If you want to rely on one source for you obeying regulations then by all means you have that right. But then what happens if that source didn't cover a specific area that your regulators wanted? Are you going to tell your regulator. "Well, uh... my one source said I could do this and I would be okay" Again go ahead and say that to your regulator when he's writing you a ticket for not following regulations.
 

Chris Chappell

New member
You need to read more. Here's a series of questions.
How many Pressure washers do think there are in the US?
How many gallons of water (on average) does your regular washer use in a day?
Can you multiply that number?


Who is lying to you and saying that every contractor out there is polluting? ? ? Really?

I know many contractors around the country and been to their houses, their jobs and seen them work and I have not seen any contractor I have visited do any polluting, just the opposite, they are cleaning up pollution and making the place cleaner, safer and more sanitary.

By saying that contractors are polluting, you are part of the problem, not the solution.

You need to quit listening to whoever is lying to you as I don't know of anyone or heard of any contractor on the forum that is out there polluting, we are all cleaning up pollution. By just repeating like a parrot that contractors are polluting, are polluters and other such nonsense, you are making things worse, you are part of the problem and are not doing anything to help. I am not a polluter and nobody I know is a polluter so quit saying those lies and listening to the liars out there that are filling your head with this nonsense and lies.


If you wanna keep thinking that your small amount of pollution doesn't matter you go right ahead and think that. It's that way of thinking and practices that gets these stricter regulations put in place. There are reason why they put stricter regulations in place. If you'll giving them a reason to make stricter regulations then yes of course they will.
Here you go again calling someone a polluter, when will this nonsense stop? Really?

Why do you feel that you have to attack someone's character and accuse them of polluting when they are cleaning pollution and trying to help the problem?

Why would you do this? Obviously you are trying to make things harder for the rest of us that are trying to do the right thing, we don't need anyone out there calling us polluters or accusing us of making pollution when we are doing the opposite. Wow!


I think you need to travel to conventions, round tables and other gatherings of contractors so you can see with your own eyes how it really is out in the world instead of listening to the liars and manipulators putting this nonsense into your head.

How many more times in this thread and others are you going to call us polluters or accuse people you don't know, have not seen in person working or have seen on video of polluting?



This thread is about trying to educate people, yourself included about the truth out there but you are using this thread to call contractors polluters and accuse them of polluting. This type of nonsense needs to stop as it is not only un-professional but shows you know nothing of contractors out in the real world but want to accuse people you don't know a polluter according to the liars and manipulators you listen to and allow them to fill your head with the lies and nonsense.

You really need to stop this nonsense before you upset more contractors.
 

Tony Shelton

Environmental Consultant / Past Director
So I'm supposed to just understand it and not ask questions? The whole basis of this thread is based on one's perception, and I'm supposed to sit back and say "okay well if he says that it must be law and fact?" Nah I don't think so. I question everything because it matters. I collect information from many sources never just one. These sources could be from individuals, to websites, to books, and many other kinds. It is my responsibility to make sure the information I receive is factual with-in my area. If you want to rely on one source for you obeying regulations then by all means you have that right. But then what happens if that source didn't cover a specific area that your regulators wanted? Are you going to tell your regulator. "Well, uh... my one source said I could do this and I would be okay" Again go ahead and say that to your regulator when he's writing you a ticket for not following regulations.
'

Please ask as many questions as you like Kristopher. Thus far you have asked the following questions, none of which have anything to do with the CWA topic at hand:

By that logic then I guess it would be okay for me to change my oil in my truck and just dump it in a lake, right. Or maybe take my used tire and swing that in the ocean as well. right?

How many Pressure washers do think there are in the US?
How many gallons of water (on average) does your regular washer use in a day?
Can you multiply that number?

If you dump a gallon of oil into a lake and another company comes in and dumps a hundred gallons of oil, does that mean you're not a polluter because now they are a bigger one?





Then you proceeded to answer your own questions in each instance.



Is there anything you don't know already?

If so, please feel free to ask some questions.

Your stance here is not of one who is trying to understand or get to the truth. It is a combative stance.
 

Chris Chappell

New member
You can not compare what one pressure washer is doing against a big corporation, but you can however compare many pressure washer who are polluting against a big corporation. The clean water act was created to protect the waters of the US, PERIOD!!! It wasn't created for sole purpose of picking on the big man. However it was the actions of these big companies that polluted the water that started the process. IT IS NOT THE SOLE REASON. You need to understand that.



Here you go again calling more contractors out there that you don't know and have not met or seen washing in public a bunch of polluters, this needs to stop already!
Why do you feel so compelled to call contractors polluters when you have not seen them polluting, have not met them or seen them working so you have no proof but feel the need to call contractors polluters with no proof whatsoever! Why do you have to do this? Who is pulling your strings and telling you to do this?

This is not part of the solution, this is a big problem that we all are trying to fix but multiple times in this one thread you feel that you have to call people polluters for no reason and no proof. Again, this nonsense needs to stop. You need to stop letting the liars and manipulators fill your head with these lies and nonsense as it is not doing anyone any good and making you look bad by calling people things that you have no clue if they are or are not. Not a way to try to make friends but a good way to make enemies.


I would define a pressure washer who is a polluter as someone who is not obeying the regulations in their area. Think of it as this as well if you'd like; someone breaking the law is classified as criminal. I do not think that all Pressure washers are criminals/polluters. Are there some out there that do pollute and don't follow regulations? Probably. But I don't think us as an entire industry are polluters.
Here you say that you don't think that all pressure washers are criminals/polluters but you call people polluters in many other posts in this same thread so it is hard to believe anything you say as you keep flip/flopping sides within a thread and on other threads on other forums. Now you are calling the polluters criminals also but have not seen them do anything, have no proof or seen them work at all but have the need to call them not only polluters now but also criminals now, Wow!

What new things are you going to call contractors next? Terrorists?
 

Chris Chappell

New member
What amount of damage?

You need to consider the variables involved from place to place. Put it this way. If you dump a gallon of oil into a lake and another company comes in and dumps a hundred gallons of oil, does that mean you're not a polluter because now they are a bigger one? NO, you are still a polluter no matter how much you're dumping. You keep thinking "Well it's only a gallon of oil, it won't matter." If you're thinking that it means others are thinking it as well.


Here you go again not understanding what he was saying, go and read it again.

Nobody is talking about dumping oil into lakes, that is you.

I don't know if you know how to clean but no part of pressure washing I have ever done in over 20 years, or anything I have ever seen while working with others, seen others working in many parts around the country or even down in Mexico has involved dumping oil into bodies of water like bays or lakes so I don't know where you get that from or why you would be saying that in this thread which is meant to help educate contractors unless your motive is to put this kind of nonsense into the thread so when searched will be found and make the thread look bad before people have the chance to see what it is about, maybe that is why you need to keep on calling contractors polluters in your own words.

Nobody in this thread is calling anyone a polluter but you, you have done this many times in this thread already but don't seem to want to stop calling contractors polluters for some reason or some agenda, either way it needs to stop as none of us are polluters but you keep calling contractors polluters.
 
Again, read my statements again. When you can understand them I will comment on them. All you are doing is misinterpreting what I am saying. When you can understand it may make more sense to you.
 

Chris Chappell

New member
So I'm supposed to just understand it and not ask questions? The whole basis of this thread is based on one's perception, and I'm supposed to sit back and say "okay well if he says that it must be law and fact?" Nah I don't think so. I question everything because it matters. I collect information from many sources never just one. These sources could be from individuals, to websites, to books, and many other kinds. It is my responsibility to make sure the information I receive is factual with-in my area. If you want to rely on one source for you obeying regulations then by all means you have that right. But then what happens if that source didn't cover a specific area that your regulators wanted? Are you going to tell your regulator. "Well, uh... my one source said I could do this and I would be okay" Again go ahead and say that to your regulator when he's writing you a ticket for not following regulations.

I am not worried about this as I know how to clean without polluting, been around a while and know what to do, what to say and how to clean properly.

You are not fooling anyone, read Tony's posts along with our posts and try to read and understand why we are trying to help you understand but you need to stop listening to the liars and manipulators that are filling your head with nonsense so you can learn the truth. Obviously you are somewhat new to the forums and possibly even this industry but these environmental issues have been talked about for many years now on most of the forums for you to learn.

I find it funny how you want Tony's help and then all of a sudden you are a CWA expert and know what it is all about in a couple days, wow you are good.

You really should show others some respect in these forums as people are trying to help you even though most don't believe a word you type as you keep changing sides and are posting like you are typing what some other people would say that are not allowed here or don't want to be caught posting their lies and nonsense here. Think about it for a while so maybe you can understand everyone's point of view, it will help you in the long run if you can, it is up to you.
 

Chris Chappell

New member
Tony, could you please go over my statements again? Because what you have written has no value in what I've been saying.
Do you mean what you have been typing? If so, then you need to go back and read what you typed as you did not pay any attention to it as you were typing what you were told to type. Go and re-read what you typed so maybe you will see what we are talking about and maybe understand some of it.
 

Chris Chappell

New member
Again, read my statements again. When you can understand them I will comment on them. All you are doing is misinterpreting what I am saying. When you can understand it may make more sense to you.
Wow, still doing the same thing you were doing over at PWI? Really?

Tony is one of the smartest and sharpest guys on this and many of the forums out there and way smarter than you will ever be based on your posts on many forums. Don't act like you are smarter than others and tell you will comment when they understand. What a joke!

Nobody is mis-interpreting what you are saying, you are doing a good job of doing that on your own posts and also contradicting yourself as well.

Like Tony posted, most of what you are posting about has nothing to do with the CWA, try to stay on topic if you can, I know it might be hard to do but if you try hard maybe you can do it. Good luck.
 

Chris Chappell

New member
More games, nonsense and calling contractors polluters, contractors that he has no clue about, has not seen working out in public or on youtube videos doing any kind of polluting but sure will call them polluters. Wow.

Why would someone parrot other people's agenda when they say that they think for themself?

Why would someone call contractors polluters so many times in a thread?

I think I was right in the other post, he is probably just trying to contaminate the thread with this nonsense so when people search, they find him calling people contractors, criminals and other nonsense even though he has no clue, no proof or even seen any polluting happening, just a liar without proof, just lying about contractors, just a liar in anyone's book by his own words.
 
Chris, all your are doing is lying. I've asked repeatedly for to open your eyes and read what I have written. I have never in any of my post said a contractor was or is a polluter. I've used examples and said that we as people in general are polluters. If you read a little more slowly you might actually get it. I'm wasting my time explaining it like you're some kind of child, so go and educate yourself. I couldn't have been any more clearer in my posts and it is not my responsibility to hold your hand.
 
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