• As of January 1, 2018 The brand new logo that was created and released in 2017 will be the only official logo in affect and allowed to be used on any electronic media however, any such media like truck wraps, stationary, and postcards will be grandfathered in. Contributing Members will be allowed to use the UAMCC logo in any advertising. Permission to use the logo otherwise must be in writing. Logos used in electronic formats (ie: Websites, forums, etc.) must be linked back to the member’s profile in the UAMCC directory. Contributing Members are members that are paid and current with their dues. Please contact info@uamcc.org with any questions.

Usdot numbers - do you need one?

Rob Huffman

New member
Tony,
The weight I believe was 6800 empty. No tank no machine. If I add 500 gallons of water plus the machine, hoses, etc I calculated it over the 11k mark.

Its not a bad thing guys...we are commercial (not personal) vehicles therefore thats what I based my decision on.

If you are having problems getting phone calls back or getting answers stop by a weight station and ask them. I wouldnt suggest taking your truck and trailer as you may get the guy who wants to write a ticket.

I dont know how many of you do work outside your state but thats another issue. What if you get caught without it in another state? Again as anything in the US fines, jail time, confiscation all depends on the police. If you are not doing anything illegal and your truck can pass an inspection its just an easy task to go get a physical and get a DOT number IMO...
 

Mathew Johnson

New member
This isn't complicated AND it isn't regulated by the individual states, local DMV's, your Uncle Joe or Aunt Bessie, whether you live in NY , Nevada, Maryland or otherwise.

It is a Federal Regulation that simply states.... If your vehicle gross registration weight exceeds 10000 pounds (or the combined weight of the vehicle and the trailer you are pulling) and your are engaged in a commercial enterprise, you are required to be registered.

It does not go off of your actual weight.

As far as complaince, I will make it work in my favor over my competition for me in marketing and sales. When a customer ask or questions price, it is one more safety item to point out why we are a more professional and a better choice for them to use our company over someone else. (no disrespect intended for the other BBS members here). I use every angle possible to entice the customer to use us over someone else.

There is Federal money that is being allocated to the states for enforcement. The FMCS act of 1986 was written with one goal in mind; to reduce commercial vehicle accidents on the highways. Of of the benchmark statistics (or mandate so to speak)that I read when I researched this on their website and the internet, was that the Federal Motor Carriers Safety Administration reduce commercial vehicle accidents by 20 percent by the year 2010. I think this is probably why you are seeing a push in enforcement as 2010 is right around the corner.

Another reason you are seeing enforcements is that the violation fines for some of the violations are very expensive and it is a huge revenue generator for the state and federal government.

It is not a hassle to comply with this; and you can make it work to your advantage with credibility over your competition with your customers.
 

Mathew Johnson

New member
Have you weighed the F550? I've got a regular bed (not a flatbed) but my F450 weighs in at over 9000 lbs empty and closer to 14k w/ 325 gallon tank and PW.

They dont look at your registration.... The look at the panel inside the door to see what the vehicle GVRW is. When the trooper pulled me over, he looked at the panel on my trailer as he walked up to my vehicle and then asked me to open the driver door so he could check something. Then he told me about the federal requirements and explained why I was required to have the DOT#, then asked me for the vehicle and trailer registration's.

The question I have is this.... Is it worth it to run without them?
 

Jim Chesmore

New member
So if I am reading this correctly, if I am over 10K GVW I need a DOT number?

I need to stop at all the check points to be checked by the inspector?

I need a medical card?

I need a log book tracking my driving hours?

If my rig is under 10K GVW and is lettered up with my business info, I do not need to do any of the above??
 

Mathew Johnson

New member
so if i am reading this correctly, if i am over 10k gvw i need a dot number?

yes, i answered the rest of the questions based on my understanding from what i learned from speaking with the fmcsa investigator, the state trooper and reading info on the fmcsa website.

i need to stop at all the check points to be checked by the inspector?

they have the right to inspect you.... They do not inspect everyone... If you are a local company and they know you play by the rules.... You will be waived through more times than not

i need a medical card?

no medical card unless needed unless you are interstate carrier and over i think 26k

i need a log book tracking my driving hours?

no log book required

if my rig is under 10k gvw and is lettered up with my business info, i do not need to do any of the above??
true... If you are pulling a trailer, then it is the combined weight
 

Douglas Hicks

New member
My P32 Step Van has regular plates, I purchased it new in 1994. I have never been asked/told about teh 10,000 GVW rules. Once, I was told to chain up in the snow, as the van has dual wheels.

I would think the DOT or a cop would have mentioned those requirements at least once in the last 14 years.
 

Tony Shelton

Environmental Consultant / Past Director
My P32 Step Van has regular plates, I purchased it new in 1994. I have never been asked/told about teh 10,000 GVW rules. Once, I was told to chain up in the snow, as the van has dual wheels.

I would think the DOT or a cop would have mentioned those requirements at least once in the last 14 years.
My last bucket truck was 22,000 lbs dead empty. No one ever asked for any DOT compliance. The guy who bought it now uses it for tree trimming in California. Said he's never heard of such a thing. I checked with the largest tree trimming company here with 45 bucket trucks just under 26k. They have no DOT numbers, the owner has never heard of such a thing. His response was "How stupid is that, I'm not transporting cargo for hire".

Maybe a tree trimming company with 45 trucks that cost over $150k each just isn't willing to play by the rules. :redcard: Hackers! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

As for other posters in this thread please see number 2 here before you go telling everyone they have follow the rules of your own Gestapo states:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/about/other/faq/faqs.asp#name2
 

Tony Shelton

Environmental Consultant / Past Director
They dont look at your registration.... The look at the panel inside the door to see what the vehicle GVRW is. When the trooper pulled me over, he looked at the panel on my trailer as he walked up to my vehicle and then asked me to open the driver door so he could check something. Then he told me about the federal requirements and explained why I was required to have the DOT#, then asked me for the vehicle and trailer registration's.

The question I have is this.... Is it worth it to run without them?
Yes. It's not required here. So you answer is yes, it is not worth it.

Your information is incorrect about DOT numbers being a federal requirement for Intrastate work. And by the way, the NEVADA Highway Patrol doesn't care what your sticker says. They have a portable scale system you have to drive on and that tells them the weight. My wife has been helping companies with weight issues on their fleets when it comes to Nevada law for ten years. But I guess her customers, the more than 100 commercial companies with fleets here, are putting their trust in the wrong place. Maybe I can have her forward next weeks calls to you and she can take a much needed vacation.

I'm sure what you have stated is eventually on the way especially with Obama in the White House, but frankly you don't know what you are talking about outside your own state and are spreading misinformation at this point.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/about/other/faq/faqs.asp#name2
 

Indy Power Wash

New member
It's not on the way here in Indiana. It has been enforced heavily for the past 2-3 years. If the GVW total rating of a truck and trailer is 10K or greater it requires a DOT number period. 75% of the 3/4 ton pickup truck lawn guys with a tandem trailer have DOT numbers now. The other 1/4 will get tickets eventually. As I said I'm not clear if it's the feds or the state but it's the law and it's enforced. At least that's the way it's being enforced. And it's about money.

The only thing I find hard to believe is the "Left Coast" hasn't used this as a revenue source. We in the midwest are usually way behind. I've never heard about the medical card, log book etc stuff, those are all CDL over 26K requirements I think. At least that's what was on my CDL test.

Some of you guys really get testy over different opinions. Matt I've searched like Tony and can't find even the Indiana regs that refer to this. But I personally know guys that have been pinched for it here. Beats me.

Just because it's not enforced doesn't mean it's not law.

Overall it's actually a very good thread. A question without an easy answer. Isn't that what these boards are about?
 

Tony Shelton

Environmental Consultant / Past Director
It's not on the way here in Indiana. It has been enforced heavily for the past 2-3 years. If the GVW total rating of a truck and trailer is 10K or greater it requires a DOT number period. 75% of the 3/4 ton pickup truck lawn guys with a tandem trailer have DOT numbers now. The other 1/4 will get tickets eventually. As I said I'm not clear if it's the feds or the state but it's the law and it's enforced. At least that's the way it's being enforced. And it's about money.

The only thing I find hard to believe is the "Left Coast" hasn't used this as a revenue source. We in the midwest are usually way behind. I've never heard about the medical card, log book etc stuff, those are all CDL over 26K requirements I think. At least that's what was on my CDL test.

Some of you guys really get testy over different opinions. Matt I've searched like Tony and can't find even the Indiana regs that refer to this. But I personally know guys that have been pinched for it here. Beats me.

Just because it's not enforced doesn't mean it's not law.

Overall it's actually a very good thread. A question without an easy answer. Isn't that what these boards are about?
The reason I got so testy about this is because I actually called the Nevada Highway Patrol, much to the chagrin of my wife who was adamant about the fact that Nevada is not like New York or (as you have shown) Indiana.

My checking behind her was disrespectful considering it is her business to know things like this. I should have just taken her word for it. Hundreds of construction companies, contractors, delivery services, etc rely on her information to be accurate and I should have too. If she didn't know her job she wouldn't have done around 30,000 registrations in ten years and the DMV wouldn't refer commercial customers to her citing her expertise.

I am sorry that you guys have to go through all that unnecessary junk in Indiana and where ever else it is. What possible purpose could it be for other than another method to extract money from contractors in the way of fees and penalties?

When my camper is on the truck fully loaded the truck and camper weighs over 14,000 lbs. Behind that is a boat that weighs about 6000 lbs. That's 20,000 that I can drive from coast to coast. My friend pulls an 18,000 lb 40+ ft 5th wheel with a 2,800 lb boat BEHIND it and he can drive almost everywhere like that. But some poor guy going across the state line to wash some concrete with an F150 and a trailer with a 350 gallon tank has to have a DOT number. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Welcome to America.
 

Indy Power Wash

New member
Couldn't agree more. Motor homes for personal use are exempt just like they are for CDL's. As near as I can tell farm vehicles by the owners and employees are too.

One thing we can all agree on is that's it's all about money. How is a vehicle with DOT numbers safer?
 

Indy Power Wash

New member
This may answer some of this.

USDOT

Registration Guide by States

You'll see it is different for different states.

Guidelines for Indiana US DOT Number and Marking Requirements
Who Must Have a US DOT Number?

If you operate a commercial motor vehicle transporting property or passengers interstate and/or intrastate and
have a GVWR or gross combined vehicle weight of 10,001 lbs. or more; you use the vehicle to transport more
than 9 passengers (including the driver); or you use the vehicle to transport placardable amounts of hazardous
materials, you must mark your vehicle with a US DOT Number. You will receive evidence of your registration
via the registration receipt.
Exemption: If you operate a farm-plated vehicle and do not leave Indiana, you do not need a US DOT number.

Commercial of course means for hire or business. Personal vehicles RV's etc are also exempt.

I figured out why most of the confusion in Indiana anyway. The law is required through the "Indiana Department of Revenue" not DOT. The DOT and police are supposed to enforce it. Violation can result in a $5,000 Civil Penalty not a motor vehicle violation.

It looks like the 10K and up is a federal law concerning travel from state to state. Some states decided to adopt it as a state law for inside their state some chose not to.

What a mess.
 
Last edited:

Tony Shelton

Environmental Consultant / Past Director
This may answer some of this.

USDOT

Registration Guide by States

You'll see it is different for different states.

Guidelines for Indiana US DOT Number and Marking Requirements
Who Must Have a US DOT Number?

If you operate a commercial motor vehicle transporting property or passengers interstate and/or intrastate and
have a GVWR or gross combined vehicle weight of 10,001 lbs. or more; you use the vehicle to transport more
than 9 passengers (including the driver); or you use the vehicle to transport placardable amounts of hazardous
materials, you must mark your vehicle with a US DOT Number. You will receive evidence of your registration
via the registration receipt.
Exemption: If you operate a farm-plated vehicle and do not leave Indiana, you do not need a US DOT number.

Commercial of course means for hire or business. Personal vehicles RV's etc are also exempt.

I figured out why most of the confusion in Indiana anyway. The law is required through the "Indiana Department of Revenue" not DOT. The DOT and police are supposed to enforce it. Violation can result in a $5,000 Civil Penalty not a motor vehicle violation.

It looks like the 10K and up is a federal law concerning travel from state to state. Some states decided to adopt it as a state law for inside their state some chose not to.

What a mess.
Thank you.
 

Doug Tripp

New member
A few comments, and take them for what it cost you...When you get a DOT number for interstate biz you are then REQUIRED to comply with the Unified Carrier Registration Agreement. See www.ucr.in.gov, the only official UCR site. And get your check-book out.

Mr. Hicks, Oregon is listed on the FMSCA web site as needing a DOT number for intrastate biz. It MAY be that Oregon has a higher weight limit than the 10k that has been discussed. I suggest you check with your state authorities. NY lowered theirs in '06 from 16k to 10k

JC, NJ does not have any state requirements for the 10k
 

Scott Millen

New member
A few comments, and take them for what it cost you...When you get a DOT number for interstate biz you are then REQUIRED to comply with the Unified Carrier Registration Agreement. See www.ucr.in.gov, the only official UCR site. And get your check-book out.

Mr. Hicks, Oregon is listed on the FMSCA web site as needing a DOT number for intrastate biz. It MAY be that Oregon has a higher weight limit than the 10k that has been discussed. I suggest you check with your state authorities. NY lowered theirs in '06 from 16k to 10k

JC, NJ does not have any state requirements for the 10k

Fellas, the point I was actually making in my article quoted by Mr. Fenner may have slipped past. I may need to do a better job communicating in the future.

The point actually is that the rules vary, are not clearly stated in easily found resources, and are enforced in a haphazard manner across the country. What's more, they are often misunderstood by the primary regulators, ie. your local and state carrier enforcement bureaus and police.

Mr. Hicks' experience is valid, but I willstate for the record, unequivocally, that Oregon has a draconian carrier enforcement system, manned by a group of napoleons the likes of which I've only seen in Third Reich movies. At one time, and until within the last 6 years or so, EVERY SINGLE COMMERCIAL VEHICLE that operated for any (and I mean ANY) miles or minutes in Oregon was required to be registered and plated with an Oregon plate, as well as the plate of the home state.

Doug, I hope your truck is compliant there, because the day they find you out of compliance will be a new experience in punitive regulation. I have always done well there myself, but truckstops across the nation resound with fables of the antics of Oregon Carrier Enforcement paddies.

It is useful, although not particularly kind, to think of these carrier enforcement troopers as being more like tax clerks with nightsticks, tasked with balancing the state budget through fines.

The bottom line is that compliance is fairly easy, relatively (compared with the actual cost of owning and operating the equipment) inexpensive, and mandatory. The troopers don't have any obligation to get you compliant, on the contrary, they are obliged to fine you when you aren't.

Find your local resources, and get the good word, check the facts, and comply. It is the easiest route, and will pay off in peace of mind.

By the way, I'm not knocking Doug Hicks or his state, I very much like them both, as far as I know them. I'd hate to see any BS fines land in his lap.

These discussions are exactly the sort of topics we should be working out, because the misinformation is everywhere. This is something that a national organization can help to tackle in any industry.

Check out the American Trucking Association's efforts in regard to regulation, or those of the Teamsters' and other trade associations, both nationally, and in your state.

Finally, I'd like to point out to all contractors that it is useful when buying equipment, and laying out trucks and trailers as cleaning rigs, to know the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating), the towing capacity of the tractor/truck being used, and the weight ratings of your axles. Not all vehicle's are identical, even in the same models. An under-equipped truck will be an overloaded truck, and overloaded equipment fails. People die due to this every day. Aside from driver fatigue, it may well be the most dangerous easily-preventable condition contributing to highway fatalities.

You can weigh your vehicle, accurately and cheaply, with readouts for each axle, at most any civilized truckstop in the nation. It is a wise use of a few minutes

Good thread.
 

Jim Chesmore

New member
I checked with NJ DOT again and found out that I DO NOT need a DOT number as long as I do not leave the state with the vehicle and its under 26K LBS
 

Chemical Doctor

New member
One more note on this subject: If you are a chemical supplier and ship HazMat you need a DOT number. This applies even if you are shipping them via freight company and do not deliver it yourself. I found out several years ago many suppliers were unaware of this. Regulations add to the cost of everyone in business regardless which side of the business you are on. Also if you have a diesel truck they can check your fuel to make sure it is not "off road" fuel which has red dye added. If you do it is a very large fine.
 
Could we post the dot requirements for every state in regards to weight of a trailer, chemicals allowed ( Soaps, Waste etc) as far as volume amount allowed.

Our DMV in California says a trailer cannot be over 10,000 lbs. Fuel not over 115 gallons per container or trailer/ vehicle. The truck towing the trailer IS NOT in the quote of the 10 k. The combine is in the 20's GVW of the trailer AND truck. Again it is a combined weight of truck and trailer.

If someone has the knowledge of each state, they should post the threads so that one may look it up for their state.
 

welder

New member
There are many issues covered by dot, some of which were not mentioned here. There is a push to have ALL comercial vehicles registered with the DOT, It has to do with homeland security. Also, If a co. has 1 vehicle that requires a dot num. then all vehicles owned by that co must show the dot number. I have had a dot number since 1985 and a class a cdl since the inception of them. I have also had the displeasure of going through a dot audit, all 6.5 hrs of it. I pulled these few papres out of my file to post if any one is interested.

There are a few things all dot stickered vehicles must have, regardless of weight,
1, fire extinguisher
2, first aid kit
3, triangle reflectors
4, spare fuses

A trailer has a whole bunch more stuff.
The med card mentioned earlier has to be renewed every 2 yrs.
 

Attachments

Top