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Why Blame us

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cleanhoods

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Why blame the hood exhaust detailer for the problems of the hood system when in fact the problem is the installers.
Think about it havent you noticed most of the ducts you see are wavy.The reason for that they rush the weld, instead of taking there time, which cause those waves and in turn makes the surface hard to scrape.
Then you got the installers that want to make duct go everywhich way with no regard that the system may be cleaned,plus most of the time they dont install access panels and if they do they dont place the panels where we truley need it.
Then you got the installers that caulk there crappy welds to hide them from the inspecter when they do a light test and then what we are to blame for the leak on the hood right.
The system is blaming the hood detailers like we installed the system we have to install access panels and so on.
Dont you like the panels that are install where you can only work completly flat on your back when you can see on the other side you would have had room.
Then you got all these wiring styles those are really great,some short and some underneath.
Or how about the ones that give you about 2 inches of wire and backwards henges or even better the hinge kit they "forgot" to mount on the exhaust fan.
Then you got the self tapping screws that are waiting on top of the hood for us KEC workers to step or lay on one. Ruff cuts on the duct great for going into you or what happened to me under my nail.
Then besides, these installers they control the fire system. They come in every six months supposed to be in the hood replacing those links every 6 months with "new" links and what happens i have seen them wipe the links clean just tag the system,conduit just hanging instead of fixing and the kec is to blame when the system gets set off,even though i havnt ,know what to look for.
And funny these guys see these systems that are absolutly just dangerous.Sitting with pounds and pounds of grease in the system and they say nothing and still tag the fire system.
How can an installer tag system so full of grease the suppression wont work. But the hood cleaner is to blame when the building burns down,which in a way the blame is there but that fire system company has equal blame.
If you got anything that you feel these "installers" need to stop doing or do post it.
You know if you took your time with the weld of the duct tack weld the entire seem first then weld the waves would not be there and when you look for a place for an access panel imagine you in the position of the panel and having to work in it,and when installing the conduit use your grinder to grind the screws sticking up at top of hood and install more support brackets!! Instead of hiding a missed welds with caulk weld it and when cutting the metal dont leave sharp edges grind it down people do work in there.Fire systems ,always check your system,replace the links,and if the system is full of grease dont back the system up non compliance it duh then the situation will be solved. There is so much more but i cannot think of it all but post it you know what i am talking about.
Marko
 
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Jeff LeCours

New member
I would imagine a lot of craftsmanship is throw out the window for cheaper prices. Its a shame, its like looking at that show, This Old House, its amazing how things used to be built, compared to now
 

cleanhoods

New member
Yes you are right JL in the past the systems were built simple,right,and with pride.
They took there time and had pride for the work they did.
Now people are in a rush and dont care but for one thing faster and money thats it quality nope not there!!!!
And my guess about 80% of installers/fire just plain dont care and really dont know.If they thought of the other people that have to be using and services the system the whole book would be re-writen
Marko
 

Douglas Hicks

New member
The hood installers control the market for suppression systems? Your source for that knowledge is?

When the UL300 fire test was written, there were several changes from the previous test. I do not remember all of the UL 300 tests, just some of them. In no particular order
1. The test procedure uses real appliances, previous testing was with mock-ups.
2. The fuel is not shut off now, previous testing was with the fuel shut off, manually, as soon as the fire started.
3. The fire is allowed to pre-burn now, I do not remember the time. Previously, the suppression system was tripped manually as soon as the fire was visible. Now the system is tripped by the detection system, with a minimum pre-burn.
4. The test hood is 10 feet, and a real hood. The test duct is 10 feet long, with vertical and horizontal runs. It is much heavier than a resturant duct. And I am sure you know the gauge of the duct was recently increased. Again, I do not remember the lengths of the ducts.
5. The exhaust system is loaded with grease, 500 # of grease. The filters are loaded with 20 # of grease, each.
6. The exhaust system is allowed to ignite by the appliance under the hood. Then the pre-burn starts, setting fire to hte duct work. The fire suppression system self-trips. If the UL Inspector thinks too much grease liquified and ran out of the duct, that test is void. I am told the duct can go to blue & even to white, at times because of the fire load.
6. Particular appliances have particular requirements. A grille has a 11" x 11" square, and I think 1" high. That is filled with grease and allowed to ignite. We both know that is more of a fire load a grill will ever have.

I don't know what 500 # of grease looks like, probably worse than a chinese resturant. But I do know when Amerex had their PK system tested for the UL300 Fire Test, they used all of the available grease in several states around Alabama, and still had trouble finding enough grease.

I understand your frustration with the lack of code enforcement. Several of us in Oregon were also upset with the lack of meaningful enforcement and the unsafe work done. Some of us in Oreogn got together and decided we could change things by forming our own org. Oregon Fire Equipment Distributors has been in existance for about 12 years. We now have NFPA 10-2007 adopted as code, with extinguishers tech required to be certified. NFPA 96-2008 has been adopted by the State Fire Marshal as part of the 2010 Oregon Fire Code. Our next project is to require System techs to be certified. We have had classes for the AHJs. About 150 have been through our classes on exhaust systems, suppression system and fire extinguishers. Several of the AHJs my comp;ny works with have attended our classes. When I work with them, I have instant credibility. If I see problems with an install, I can talk to them about the problems. I have AHJs call me and ask for my opinion. I have even had other cleaners call and ask for help with defiencies. Another org I am involved with is Grease Police. A year ago last spring, some of us on GP were asked to attend the IKECA conference in Las Vegas, as their guests. We were asked becasue we were making a difference. Some of us took advantage of that meeting.

Changes can be made, but not by one person making rants, but by a number of people trying to make a difference. There are formal orgs, such as OR-Fed, UAMCC and IKECA, and informal orgs such as GP and the various Round Tables. A competitor and I met with 2 local Fire Marshals and talked about extingushers & suppression systems. We raised the bar a little bit in our area. Those FM have asked me to give a presentation of fire sprinklers and the problems I have seen in that part of life and safety. I decided several years ago I could make a difference. I have spent a great deal of time & money attending classes and meetings to improve my knowledge and skills in the field of life & fire safety, and that of my employees. What have you done? How many roundtables have you been to? Were you at NOLA or any other meetings? Have you been to an IKECA meeting? How many AHJs have you had a meeting with?

Flame away, call me a liar, a thief, a drunk or whatever you wish. But do not call me brother until you step up and make a difference.
 

cleanhoods

New member
Douglas i have been making a diferance on the front lines kinda like a soldier in the field but i am no politian you get what i mean. I will help all restaurants that needs my help my goal is to remove the fuel in there system. Meeting Ikeca and so on does not keep my business working they are good place to have but i just dont have the time i am working as much as 36 hour runs,1 man 6 children and a wife to support not mentioning the fish and dogs. Now i have mentioned time and time again to have this hood cleaning shin dig here in the Carolinas many times and whats funny just not long ago YOUR GP member mentioned the same Charolette,nc or Ashville,nc which both is an hour form me.
Douglas i simply cannot afford to stop drop my tools and come to Texas i am booked for 3 years from and and 2 months behind on some. I must be making a difference i i am find creditable companies and some you know the names but i will not mention that talk all this talk on the forums but there is no backing it up.
Proof ye i have proof with a after cleaning inspection of the system they cleaned and there tag,which is a hobby to collect.
Douglas what you wrote completly avoided tthe topic at hand and since you are here and an installer answer the question, why do installers weld the ducts all messed up wavy and leaving sharp shards of mental for someone to get hurt,dont forget the state i am in so you definitly know the companies i am sure, and why do these fire extinguisher companies tag these systems but they can see that the system is full of grease which should be non comply right.You say hood cleaners should deny hoods because of whatever issues why dont the fire extinguisher people do it.
Now douglas one thing that all of us guys are is brothers you are just the grouchy brother but i know you have knowledge and know your stuff but you seem to neglec the sources of the problems and the fire ext. guys hold the key.You all are the inspectors you all see the fire marshalls and you alll should know where access panles should be and know that a system that is dripping grease and is a few inches thick should have a non comply and the installers should know that there will be a KEC worker in these ducts to service the system so it should be made safe for one and the duct should be smooth.
Douglas believe me i am no slacker when it comes to the work i do i really take alot of oride in what i do and yes i may have some primitive methods but i showed my work on pics and you know i do great work if you dont believe me call a few fire companies here. Burgas Fireand Saftey ask for Van,Fire Pro "Saftey" Services ask for Kenny,Northwest fire ask for Doug,Hoods Plus nc John ,Unifour fire in hickory,asheville fire,Nathional fire,American fire,Caroilna fire,and so on heck call all the fire companies in the state they know my name BROTHER, they like coming into A hood that is clean and the conduit for the fire system is clean all parts will work no dripping all nice shiny rusty silver metal.
i really dont understand what i have to be a member of some place to be reconized,no, i am reconized by my customers and all thise fire companies some recomend me soem are competators and some gave up there cleaning service to me which the one that did that is an IKECA member an di can tell you pretty poor work which i told them that and he said his employee didnt like to go on the hood to the access panels and the next tag i will get which i inspected just 2 days ago and wow pretty bad work and it is a GREASE POLICE MEMBER and as Matt knows is not the first member.The camera only shows what the holder wants it to and the info you all got is only the info your members want to give you. Thats my hobby Douglas stickers as many as i can collect,there are nice silver to blue to black to printed at home but a bunch.
You know it is funny since i am not making a dent in iur industry and i dont care,i donot advertise a drop of it nothing on the net nothing in the yellow pages and nothing on my truck,hem and still get non stop business and calls and recommendations my customers recomend me and recommend me i almost am just over welmed but besides cleaning i am fixing and installing actually a customer of mine asked me to come to his house to install security cameras i have build bathroom stall to lock out securty back door screens installed flat screen tvs welded sinks doors and so on i rebuild bearings replace belts i replace motors and fix them i have done tune ups for my customer vehicles and have power washed there pools i have cleaned up a entire restaurant in and out( that was the 36 hoours non stop) for opening inspections and have closed restuarants also by removing all appliances from the hood to the coolers to equiptment sinks and even the toilet paper dispensers. When i do things i take my time and always do it with my pride BROTHER Douglas.
And one thing i can say you still didnot answer the questions i ahve asked and i am sure you will find a way to beat around these again why because you ARE an installer.
And ,isnt it racist to make fun of people because of the way they talk (you know my parent s have strong accents)and drinking on the job only determins the person doing so has no disaplin to wait till you get home which clasifiies as a drunk and using customers equiptment and eating there food without permission is a thief. Now Douglas i know you are not any of those but in our business it is not good to give ideas like that our customers work hard everyday for what they got and to just joke about things like that will give some the idea to do so.
Douglas lets not have this bad taste is what i am getting from you and if i did hurt your feelings in anyway i am SORRY for doing so. One thing you have to believe i do care about the work i do and i do take pride in the work i do.I do beyond work i just dont go to work to work my mind is at workk to to improve this industry and bring it to light and finally get some reconision and believe me some meals take soem time to cook to be right. Thanks for your input BROTHER Douglas and the answers to my questions and comments i look forward to seeing.
Marko
 

cleanhoods

New member
Didnt they raise the gauge of the duct to 18mil which doesnt make the diference on the waves the only way to help the wave is to tack all your seems first then weld. Is that right Douglas?
marko
 

Michael Tessaro

New member
What did you just say? That is the most rambling, incomprehensible, incoherent, babbling, run on sentence I have ever read. Have you been drinking? If you have, go to bed and get off the computer. Holy Cow.
 

cleanhoods

New member
Michael i am talking right i jsut dont know how to place things right. One thing i donot drink but once in a blue moon.My stomache just doesnt handle alchohol if you get what i mean it goes in then straight out. Couldnt you as a member here and a person of expierance answer the questions at hand instead of making fun of the way i write we ALL know i donot do that well.
This si a real issue in our lineof work which i feel needs to be brought to light an you all are the ones that are involved in the meeting and round tables the polititians so istead of being a conquerer or a dicktator come up with a demacratic salution.
Marko
 

cleanhoods

New member
Douglas just an add on i am doing things for the industry more then you know and everyone will soon see the help and dedication i will provide for ALL to benifit even you Michael.
Marko
 

cleanhoods

New member
UAMCC i guess my writing is not understandable can one of yuo interpet my book above so it can be understood better? lol
Marko
 

cleanhoods

New member
Oh last question answerd i missed Douglas about the intallers in realtion to the fire suppression.
I should of worded it in a better way,here in this state most of he fire suppresssion companies install the hoods and i would say half of them have no idea that peple have to clean these systems and God forbid a contractor highers a mechanical company to install the hood,which happen a few 6 months ago, didnot put access panels in and says the was not needed. I look at it and guess what 4 needed this whould be a 2 fan system going down to the hood then boyh tee and then a right 90 and a 90 down.There is 10 turns between two systems and then the fire suppression comes in and just does there thing with no regard that the system cannot be cleaned properly so i discuss theis with the county engineer,the state fire marshal and the county fire marshal plus the contractor and the only office that agreed and gave me the codes of the state of NC relaing ot my issue cannot do nothing to the county.She advised my NC didnot adopt any of the NFPA standards but wishes they would.
I have tried and i have pleeded and nothing so this is why i brought it here maybe some of you that have soem push and pull can figure things out to benifit the right doers in this state.
I was going to do the media thing and a Grease Police member was going to join my quest but then i was advised the possiblity of losing my customers over this which i cannot afford to do.
So in all i am not trying to make any enemies just friends thats all i have known alot of you for about 3 years now even though i havnt met but only one.But i know at the computer and in person is different.Thats why i offerd you all bring your meetings here and even offered yuo all to come on over and i will fire up the grill and we will have a cook out and meet and greet.
My hand is still out and i am always up to try new things.
Marko
 

Douglas Hicks

New member
What did you just say? That is the most rambling, incomprehensible, incoherent, babbling, run on sentence I have ever read. Have you been drinking? If you have, go to bed and get off the computer. Holy Cow.
What he said. I feel I wasted my time by writting my response to you. I apologize to the UAMMC for wasting space and to all of the little electrons who gave thier lives for my post.

Michael, I am again remined of my recent post on GP about how some people are like a slinky toy.
 

cleanhoods

New member
I tried i guess you wont Douglas.
I have placed good points and you failled to answer.
Did i miss something you wrote or misunderstand i think i answered everything you have posted.
I just dont get why you two seem to try to start things with me for no reason i can think of.
I think you all need to get down off your horses an let them have a drink and look around a bit.
Douglas i respect you as a person because i havnt met you but your online personality just plain sucks.
Michael same to you as well you need to get off your horse and just look around.
I am truly a big hearted person yes i am under educated but rubbing that in my face shows the type of people you are which is wrong.
I am just trying to help one thing i like doing helping people in amyway i can,but i dont give up easy so my hand is still out t the both of you.
Do you shake or do you show your colors?
Marko
 

cleanhoods

New member
Well fellows and ladies i have a wife(boss) thats reminding me i have work in four in a half hours so i say GOODNIGHT all and be safe and my hand will remain out PM email or call me anytime,thank you.
Marko
 

Michael Tessaro

New member
Douglas, I hear ya man. Slinky hahahaha. And the Olympics. If I lived in NC I would make every effort to make it to the Charleston Roundtable. There is going to be a ton of info for all levels of contractors and also KEC guys. There is going to be probably 200 contractors attending. And if I lived in NC I would quit whining about nobody wanting to share info with me and go to a Roundtable event. But I dont live in NC and I dont whine about people picking on me. But some people want it all brought to them, boo hoo.
 

cleanhoods

New member
Michael for one i havnt wined about anything and two you should be ashamed of your attitude you are a board member representing the KEC side for the UAMCC and you act like a newbee.
Still South Carolina And not North Carolina.
My opinion the UAMCC should rid of an immature person like you.
A quetion and a valid point is at hand and all you have is critisism.
All i have done was put a valid point up here and only been placeing threads here now havnt I.
WHat have i done to you or anyone nothing but miss spelling and not wording things right.
I havent asked anyone and look back Michael for anything from anyone here.
Except the advice of downsteaming with a flow actuated unloader thats it i havnt asked for foam,chem mixes,proceedures anything.
I feel i shouldnt ask if someone offers then i may except but i will not ask.
I am just supprised that you as a human being enjoy this sort of attacks on another for no reason at all make no sence.
I guess you all at the Creap Police had a meeting to harrass old Marko the little one man company.
Now i will say good by and enjoy UAMCC i have tried to help and i feel i am not welcome even though i tried i undersand normal people but a board member the same member of the board that asked to help here just ashame immature and disrespectful,
Goodnight.
Marko
 

John Tornabene

New member
Common lets be civil here. No point in pointing fingers and blaming others here for anything. This thread like any other if it continuously gets ugly then it will be closed. Lets stay professional so others can learn from what is being discussed.
 

cleanhoods

New member
Agreed.
So why are the installers giving the KEC workers wavy ducts,shards of metal,caulked seems that end up leaking and leaving globs of weld behind?
Why is there access panels in the wrong place or not in place art all?
Why do alot of fire extinguisher companies still tag the systems even though the systems havnt been cleaned properly or at all?
My guess is the installers are not informed enough for one about the KEC side of the business, also i believe the installers are eather not trained(or very little of it) or just rush the job when it comes to welding, thats where the waves come from, the caulk is lazyness, and the blobs is burn through, so they weld the hole they burned which leaves the blob inside.
Another thing holes in the grease troth due to welders not shielding there welds,no it isnot your chem.
The shards of metal is from cutting and basically by the time they get around they was off. Plasma cutter would give you a better cut.
Then access panels in places that really is the wrong place and makes things harder then needed to be but at least its there.
Installers not even instaling access panels why because they really dont know that it will be needed.
And last but not least the fire ext. companies they come in do there system check(some dont)then replace links(some dont)and tag the system.
Now if they was up in the hood replacing links they have the bird eyes view of the system, why is it still tagged?
Well its the money and getting to the next one.
Extremly caked system never gets noticed then.
So KEC what you need to do is check on the fire ext. companies there is a date on the links links must be changed every 6 months and check tags see for non compliance issues.
Ask customer if they accually dry tested the system like they should every 6 months.Then lets see who is doing there job.I only found a few in the years and most dont.
All these issues the hood cleaner gets the blame, but the fire guy and installer walks free why?
They are the inspector insuring fire saftey right.
My point for far to long, the hood cleaner has taken most of the blame for these systems in the shape they are, which blame is there yes, alot doesnot clean properly but, and i stress but, all the systems that are in bad shape,building burnt down,hot kitchens and so on could have all been and can be prevented if the fire extinguisher companies report the systems that is in danger and in neglec and non accessable area can be solved if the installers just require the installion.
Now these issues is the issues i go through in my state NC since i started in 1997.
If any other KEC has these similar issues please state them and state your state and lets see how wide spread it really is.
Marko
 
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