Article: PWNA Misrepresents Themselves to Orange County AHJ and the Industry

[Kristopher Pettitt]

This thread is JUST full of smart alecs.

 

[Steven Button]

You do include yourself as well I hope? ;-)

Hey, did your investigation turn up anything?

 

[Ron Musgraves]

Yeah will take another confirmation.


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[Greg Nash]

Ya Jenna voss don't make the rules hows that for a smart a**

 

[Tony Shelton]

Ms. Voss is the Information Officer. She is the face of the department and deals with public relations. That is why she was the contact for the PWNA. She simply reached out to them to help advertise a 2 hr workshop for contractors. Robert Hinderliter took this contact opportunity to try to shove his BMPs down their throat the same way he and Jim Gamble did in Nevada.

In Nevada they wouldn't take no for an answer and repeatedly tried to force them to accept his BMPs. Even resorting to threatening them by telling them their current BMPs were illegal and Jim making contact with federal EPA officials in California complaining about Nevada not taking Robert's Bmps seriously.

We AND the pwna have the emails that prove the above statement. I sent them a copy of them myself months ago.

This was an embarrassment to our industry and this latest occurrence is an even worse embarrassment. Now we are not only looked at as incompetent bullies, but are bold faced liars as well.

The PWNA cannot claim ignorance on this. They have all the evidence from Nevada. They knew what Robert and Jim are capable of yet chose to unleash them on Orange County.

At best it is complete incompetence. At worst it is a contrived effort to make us look like an industry of idiots to further prove the need for BMPs that are made for the lowest common denominator instead of being based on the fact that we are intelligent contractors.

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[Ron Musgraves]

Ms. Voss is the Information Officer. She is the face of the department and deals with public relations. That is why she was the contact for the PWNA. She simply reached out to them to help advertise a 2 hr workshop for contractors. Robert Hinderliter took this contact opportunity to try to shove his BMPs down their throat the same way he and Jim Gamble did in Nevada.

In Nevada they wouldn't take no for an answer and repeatedly tried to force them to accept his BMPs. Even resorting to threatening them by telling them their current BMPs were illegal and Jim making contact with federal EPA officials in California complaining about Nevada not taking Robert's Bmps seriously.

We AND the pwna have the emails that prove the above statement. I sent them a copy of them myself months ago.

This was an embarrassment to our industry and this latest occurrence is an even worse embarrassment. Now we are not only looked at as incompetent bullies, but are bold faced liars as well.

The PWNA cannot claim ignorance on this. They have all the evidence from Nevada. They knew what Robert and Jim are capable of yet chose to unleash them on Orange County.

At best it is complete incompetence. At worst it is a contrived effort to make us look like an industry of idiots to further prove the need for BMPs that are made for the lowest common denominator instead of being based on the fact that we are intelligent contractors.

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So if the Pwna is a not for profit ??? Which we do not know, clearly these men what your saying are using the allege org for profiteering. So even if they had a exempt tax status more than likely this would jeopardize it.

Why is eclean or Cleanertimes not covering this ?

Why isn't this being released to ap wire as news in Orange County or EPA miss happenings.

This Bmp effects more than pressure washer, business in Orange County an Nevada could have been damaged.

Looks like oc was all over this.

When I made first contact they had already known the Pwna has crossed the line. The funny thing is that had read all the blogs. Boon must have a google notification on his phone for oc bmps.

I'm glad like always we had multiple sources for our members an the industry. Three to be exact with a team of others who examined the findings before we moved forward.


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[Doug Rucker]

This thread is JUST full of smart alecs.

Nah...just me....

 

[Ron Musgraves]

Nah...just me....

Yeah we are full of them here, I think Greg's got you beat


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[Doug Rucker]

Experience....give me a few more years...I'm a noob at this smart Alec stuff

 

[Tony Evans]

I think many positive things will come from this. We will unify those in the industry who are truly interested in helping it to grow and not trying to profiteer on the backs of contractors. The latter will become evident to anyone with any sense whatsoever. And as an org the UAMCC will be able to identify those in our midst that should be removed as they are just here to disrupt and do the bidding of the profiteers.

 

[Kristopher Pettitt]

Only those that lack intelligence have to revert to smart alec remarks. When you got nothing to say you go to that, and that my friends is truly pathetic. If the UAMCC ever truly wants to be serious contender it better stop with the immature and unprofessional status it is known for. If it does that maybe, just maybe they'll call you guys instead of PWNA. There's a reason why OC called PWNA and not The UAMCC. Try acting like a professional org instead of a joke. This is especially important to those on The BOD.

 

[Kristopher Pettitt]

Tony you have some of the information.... not all. Unless you have the full picture all your stating is speculations. I doubt that we'll ever get the fulll story or what has really been going on unless OC watersheds decides to make an official statment themselves. So I guess in the end we'll never know.

 

[Doug Rucker]

Kris, I really think you got it all wrong. You actually can have intelligence and be a smart alec. You just have to be able to choose which one to use when. Sometimes you can have two things to say, the real answer the questioner is asking, and then the one you really want to give. Usually the smart alec answer comes out when you know the person you are answering too will A) ALWAYS DISAGREE NO MATTER WHAT, or, B) can actually find the answer he's asking very well on his own, so therefore the answerer is actually helping the person better himself, or C) the person answering could care less about the opinions or advice that is about to come forth from the questioner.

Hope this helps.

 

[Tony Evans]

Well said Doug.
Kris, Allisons responses on PWI answered the questions but since you are banned there it's safe to say you don't have all the information. Your remarks about the UAMCC despite being a member are very disturbing. If that's your opinion of the org you really have no business being a part of it.

 

[Tony Shelton]

Tony you have some of the information.... not all. Unless you have the full picture all your stating is speculations. I doubt that we'll ever get the fulll story or what has really been going on unless OC watersheds decides to make an official statment themselves. So I guess in the end we'll never know.

This Tony has the information.

Very soon we will have the same foia information that Allison ordered. You can bet that the information will not be piecemealed out like John T. Is trying to do with emails he claims hr has but refuses to produce.

Last time we sent all 400+ pages of emails to the president of the PWNA for sharing with all the bod for the sake of transparency and to show them what their environmental team was doing behind everyone's back.

The simple fact here is the PWNA was asked for one thing, to help advertise a workshop and try to get attendees there. Robert proceeded to try to shove his BMPs on them the same way he did in Nevada. Then proceeded to deceive everyone into believing that OC had ASKED for his help in revamping their BMPs.

This type of deception has no place in our industry. There are too many hardworking men and women who provide employment for thousands and their families who are damaged by these behind the scenes maneuvers.

If a man can't be honest hexhas no business representing the interests of others.

And before you go off ranting about some fantasy "lie" that I have ever told you better be prepared to back it up or defend the accusation in court.

I will gladly defend the accusation against Robert. It is a fact. It almost cost contractors a lot in Nevada also.



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[Ron Musgraves]

The Uamcc is the most respected org in this industry. The reason are because 9 men an over 300 donating members participate. They work hard each day to grow there business an rely on the volunteers to help them. We stand committed to fighting anyone we can for contractors business men an our associates. We are the strongest because there isn't another like us. Hiding behind let's all be professional are the pacified losers who have run our industry no place.

Quote me that!! the president united association of contract cleaners.


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[Kristopher Pettitt]

Kris, I really think you got it all wrong. You actually can have intelligence and be a smart alec. You just have to be able to choose which one to use when. Sometimes you can have two things to say, the real answer the questioner is asking, and then the one you really want to give. Usually the smart alec answer comes out when you know the person you are answering too will A) ALWAYS DISAGREE NO MATTER WHAT, or, B) can actually find the answer he's asking very well on his own, so therefore the answerer is actually helping the person better himself, or C) the person answering could care less about the opinions or advice that is about to come forth from the questioner.

Hope this helps.

Do you sincerely believe that as a Vice President of a national org that being a smart alec is a representing the UAMCC in the best professional light? You are right Doug there is a time and a place that you could be a smart alec and behave like child, however this is not the time nor the place. Another question for you Doug. When you meet a high corporate person (say for an estimate) what is your expectation of them? Do you expect him to wag his finger at you and say smart alec things, or do you expect him to be the professional he is?.......... you know I just realized something as I was writing that. Maybe I expect to much from The BOD. Maybe I expect more from you Doug, more from Ron, more from Tony, and more from the entire BOD because I see this org as a national org. Maybe I just need to stop thinking of it as that, because it's just not ready to put at that level right now. When you write on here you are writing as The Vice President of a national org, or do you not get that? Think about it.

 

[Kristopher Pettitt]

Well said Doug.
Kris, Allisons responses on PWI answered the questions but since you are banned there it's safe to say you don't have all the information. Your remarks about the UAMCC despite being a member are very disturbing. If that's your opinion of the org you really have no business being a part of it.

Mr, Evans you have lost all respect from me and I don't have anything nice to say to you. My mother said if you can't say something nice don't say nothing at all. So I'm keeping my mouth shut. But please call me anytime and I'll be happy to tell you how I REALLY feel about you.

 

[Kristopher Pettitt]

The Uamcc is the most respected org in this industry. The reason are because 9 men an over 300 donating members participate. They work hard each day to grow there business an rely on the volunteers to help them. We stand committed to fighting anyone we can for contractors business men an our associates. We are the strongest because there isn't another like us. Hiding behind let's all be professional are the pacified losers who have run our industry no place.

Quote me that!! the president united association of contract cleaners.


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Respected by whom? By the members? If your org is the biggest, strongest, and the best org out there today tell me why OC never heard of you until recent events? huh?

 

[Doug Rucker]

Do you sincerely believe that as a Vice President of a national org that being a smart alec is a representing the UAMCC in the best professional light? You are right Doug there is a time and a place that you could be a smart alec and behave like child, however this is not the time nor the place. Another question for you Doug. When you meet a high corporate person (say for an estimate) what is your expectation of them? Do you expect him to wag his finger at you and say smart alec things, or do you expect him to be the professional he is?.......... you know I just realized something as I was writing that. Maybe I expect to much from The BOD. Maybe I expect more from you Doug, more from Ron, more from Tony, and more from the entire BOD because I see this org as a national org. Maybe I just need to stop thinking of it as that, because it's just not ready to put at that level right now. When you write on here you are writing as The Vice President of a national org, or do you not get that? Think about it.

Do you sincerely believe that as a Vice President of a national org that being a smart alec is a representing the UAMCC in the best professional light?

No I do not.

You are right Doug there is a time and a place that you could be a smart alec and behave like child, however this is not the time nor the place.

Now see, that’s your opinion, You get to have your’s, I get to have mine. Some people may see some of your responses and statements as very smart alec too, so does that mean this is the right time and place for you and not me, that this is your time to behave like a child and smart alec??



Another question for you Doug. When you meet a high corporate person (say for an estimate) what is your expectation of them?

To be there on time, and to be able to communicate effectively to me their needs so that I can better prepare their proposal.

Do you expect him to wag his finger at you and say smart alec things, or do you expect him to be the professional he is?..........

Funny you ask this, as this has happened several times over the years of being in this business. I certainly don’t go in expecting him to wag his finger at me and a say smart alec things. But when it happens I make one of two decisions, I either 1) just ignore it and concentrate on gathering the information I need to complete my proposal, or 2) I make a decision to let the customer know that I am not the person for this job and advise him to look else where for the answer or results he is looking for. You know, kind of a “this is just not the right fit” kind of thing. One thing I never do is give him my opinion that I think he is a smart alec or giving me smart alec questions. I just view him as a person with different personality traits and the understanding that we are all different. I never, EVER, let it affect me, one way or the other. I also never ever demand of him for help in doing my job or something I could so easily do my self. In fact usually when people demand something or tell me something to do, without asking nicely with at least a "please" in there somewhere, I usually won't comply, and sometimes will do the opposite. Just the way I am. It's a flaw of mine.


you know I just realized something as I was writing that. Maybe I expect to much from The BOD. Maybe I expect more from you Doug, more from Ron, more from Tony, and more from the entire BOD because I see this org as a national org.

Maybe you do Kris, maybe you don’t. I don’t know. I do know this, we are all just flawed, imperfect men, (AND I WILL BE THE FIRST TO ADMIT I AM THE MOST FLAWED), here trying to help people be successful, and trying to improve the perception of our industry. We make mistakes like everyone else, and we also get a lot of things right. I do know that when we do make mistakes, (Me, Tony, Ron or anyone on the BOD,) we are the first to admit to it and ask for forgiveness. Publically and Privately.

Maybe I just need to stop thinking of it as that, because it's just not ready to put at that level right now.

Maybe you do, and that’s your opinion and you have every right to it.

When you write on here you are writing as The Vice President of a national org, or do you not get that? Think about it.

Oh I definitely get it, do I think about it, ehhh, sometimes, most times not. I am and will always be ME, this Vice President thing is only temporary and I can’t let it go to my head and change me. Same as if and when I become President, I still have to be me. None of us on the BOD are really into our titles, but we are all passionate about the organization. That’s probably why you never see any of us touting our “titles” in our signatures or, business cards, text sigs, etc, or things like that. We all just try to represent and protect the org to the best of our abilities.

Now in closing let me say this, I would never be a part of something if I felt about it the way you feel about the UAMCC. Think about it.

Hope this answers your questions and helps.